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Strategies & Market Trends : Asia Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Liatris Spicata who wrote (8078)	2/24/1999 8:42:00 AM
From: Zeev Hed	Respond to of 9980

Larry, I do not have the numbers to back up the following, but I believe the debt incurred in financing the Marshall plan is a very small portion of our total current debt. Our debt spiral started when we decided to have "war and butter" during the Vietnam era. Of course we went into real Gog Umagog in the early 80', but that is another story. The increased economic activity here due partially to the Marshall plan helped alleviate a potential deep post war recession, IMHO. Zeev

To: Liatris Spicata who wrote (8078)	2/24/1999 8:52:00 AM
From: Bosco	Respond to of 9980

<o.t. re: Marshall Plan> G'day all - I only know the superficial elements of the Plan. However, I suspect it goes deeper than the economic revival of the war torn Europe. My argument centers around the different road to the economic renewal of Germany after WWI and WWII. Granted that the devastation of WWII was much more thorough and severe, Germany was able to rebuild himself after a humiliating defeat in WWI. Then, there are the additional elements of the Cold War, as such, it is difficult to separate the political cost with the economic cost. best, Bosco

To: Liatris Spicata who wrote (8078)	2/24/1999 12:43:00 PM
From: shadowman	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 9980

Larry, I'm not sure, but I don't believe anyone has postulated the premise that Unions were the "primary or only" catalyst for economic growth in the US. To dismiss their contribution to the establishment of an economically healthy working and middle class is a little harsh. To quote you: "Unions using government's to work their will may benefit politically influential workers, at the expense of those without the benefits bestowed by politicians." Could probably more appropriately read: Large corporate (or monied) interests, using governments to work their will, may benefit politically influential (economic) interests at the expense of those without the benefits bestowed by politicians. Neither side is going to win any awards for altruism. I think the argument that the unreasonable exploitation of workers to benefit a few well positioned corporations or owners, such as what is happening in much of the developing world, including parts of Asia (an attempt to be on topic), to the detriment of establishing a healthy consumer (middle) class is not an intelligent blueprint for economic or political stability. This has been said before on this thread. I'll bet you're no fan of FDR :)

To: Liatris Spicata who wrote (8078)	2/24/1999 9:02:00 PM
From: Dayuhan	Respond to of 9980

Larry, I would agree that the Marshall plan contributed a slice of debt, but what was the alternative? The massive industrial overcapacity in the US, combined with a desperate need for reconstruction in the rest of the world and a total lack of ability to pay for it, could have easily led, without intervention, to a deadly deflationary spiral and a return to depression. One can only imagine the results; the cold war was not pleasant, but it might easily have been worse. I don't like to be too hard on FDR, who provided leadership when it was desperately needed. It is easy to argue, with benefit of hindsight, that he led in the wrong direction, but I am not sure that anyone else would have done better, given the information and knowledge available at the time. Asian economies would be better off allowing the free flow of capital and permitting free minds and free markets to determine wages. That would be ideal. But it should be noted that manipulation of wage levels can work in both directions. There have been concerted efforts in a number of Asian countries, often with external encouragement, to keep wages depressed, ostensibly to boost exports. The combination of declining real wages, physical repression directed at efforts to organize labor, and rising prices is a major contributing factor to social instability in countries like the Philippines and Indonesia. Steve