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Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (36141)2/27/1999 1:35:00 PM
From: Johannes Pilch  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 67261
 
My reaction:

>1. Clinton in office, some news source runs the "Clinton Love Child" story. We should ignore it, Clinton should resign, we should impeach him, or what?<

Given Clinton's certified dalliances, we should think it reasonable, perhaps likely he has the “love child”, but since the news stories only claimed tests were being run to confirm Clinton's link to the child, we should wait for the verdict.

>2. Clinton in office, Genifer Flowers comes forward to say she and Clinton had one last fling last year after he already told the public during his campaign he was through with her forever - same thing, ignore, resign or impeach?<

Neither. Given Clinton's certified sexual dalliances, and depending on the circumstances surrounding Flowers, we may believe it quite reasonable Flowers is telling the truth and use this information to help us come to the conclusion that Clinton is an adulterous scoundrel.

>3. George Jr. Bush is discovered to have been a part of a fraternity party where some underage (under 21 in the 70s in Texas) girls claim to have been date raped (not by Bush, but he was there). What should he do about the office he holds as gov of Texas - resign etc.<

Not enough information. If Bush was merely there but did nothing wrong, then how can we blame him for the rapes?

>I personally don't think you can impeach a president unless he commits a provable crime.<

The President can be impeached not only for technically criminal offenses, but also for offenses that harm some public trust. These offenses are called political offenses.

>Of course the right has done just that, they impeached Clinton over something that I don't consider a crime.<

Clinton's lying in a court of law was certainly a political crime, and may well even be technically criminal. Judge Wright is not considering holding Clinton in contempt of court simply because the notion has a nice ring to it.

>This is very frightening to me, it is similar to a police state mentality.<

Oh please. You apparently need a primer on history. Steadfastly holding to the rule of law, a rule that applies to king and peasant alike, is the exact oppose of what you claim to fear. What you champion philosophically is the police state, where a president can lie with impunity and use the system against his country to support his misdeeds.

>Clinton is one man, if someone files charges against him and wins, fine by me, I am not living to support Clinton. But I am not going to let a bunch of racist, religious zealots get a hold of the country either.<

You go girl! Wonder woman!



To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (36141)2/27/1999 3:00:00 PM
From: Mary Cluney  Respond to of 67261
 
Michelle, >>>Alright then why don't you tell me what your solution would be to these issues:<<<

Okay, let me give it a shot.

>>>1. Clinton in office, some news source runs the "Clinton Love Child" story. We should ignore it, Clinton should resign, we should impeach him, or what?<<<

By and large, freedom of the press works. By and large we have a system that works. We don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak, if we don't agree with how certain parts of system seem not to be working.

Where you have freedom of the press, there are bound to be certain abuses. That is a price that has to be paid. The alternative is too horrible to contemplate. If the "Clinton Love Child" story had no basis, it would have a tough time making it the more legitamate news media and gain space perhaps only in the supermarket tabloids.

If you tried to make up a story about a Jimmie Carter "Love Child", do you think many legitimate news outlets would carry the story?

Having said that, we as citizens have a duty to insure that we do not defend false accusations. Those making false allegations should be punished, where possible. The "Clinton Love Child" story has largly been discredited. Of course, there will be people who will believe what they want to believe, regardless of the evidence. Democracy will never be perfect.

On the other hand, if there are credible allegations that the President of United States has committed rape, we cannot ignore it. If the allegation are false, we cannot let it stand. We cannot allow people to make false personal allegations against a sitting President of the United States.

Bill Clinton has an obligation to insure that people do not make false accusations, of a serious nature, against a sitting President of the United States and get away with it. There is no law that says he has a moral obligation to clear his own name or that of a sitting President of the United States.

There is no law that says he has an obligation to explain the situation to the public. There is no law that I know of that forces him to subject himself to a press conference and answer any questions.

He does not need to clear himself to the extent as defined by any standards of the criminal justice system. All he has to do is look into the camera and say, "I know I have lied before, but now I am telling the truth. I did not rape that woman, Juanita Broaddrick".

The words of a President of the United States should carry some weight and have some credibility. Is that too much to ask of someone whom we have entrusted with such enormous responsibilities?

>>>2. Clinton in office, Genifer Flowers comes forward to say she and Clinton had one last fling last year after he already told the public during his campaign he was through with her forever - same thing, ignore, resign or impeach? <<<

If it is an isolated situation, a sitting President of the United States should be given the benefit of the doubt on allegations of bad personal conduct, that is unprovable, and that does not involve criminal wrong doing.

>>>3. George Jr. Bush is discovered to have been a part of a fraternity party where some underage (under 21 in the 70s in Texas) girls claim to have been date raped (not by Bush, but he was there). What should he do about the office he holds as gov of Texas - resign etc.).<<<

What does this have to do with Bill Clinton? If George Bush Jr runs for President of the United States, we will absolute have to know if he ever raped anyone or was an accessory to rape. He will have to explain it. If he has gotten away with rape, he should not be elected President of the United States. If he has a pattern of behavior that abuses women, children, or animals - he should not be elected President. Simple.

>>>I am not living to support Clinton. But I am not going to let a bunch of racist, religious zealots get a hold of the country either. <<<

If Clinton leaves office before his term expires, Al Gore becomes President. If you have a problem with that - that is a separate issue. Right now, you are in denial, if you do not think you are defending Bill Clinton. You are defending a person who is being charged with exposing himself to Paula Jones, against her will, in a hotel room. You are defending a person who is being charged with forcing his genitals on Kathleen Wiley, against her will, in a work situation in the Whitehouse. You are defending a person who was charged, but not convicted, of having oral sex in the Oval Office with a subordinate while engaged in business of the State. You are defending a person who is charged with forcing sex (rape) on Juanita Broaddrick in a hotel room many years ago.

At this point Bill Clinton can not be forced out of office and most likely can not be brought to trial after he leaves office. But for the sake of your country and the sake of your own values. Please do not defend this man. Please do not defend this man in a direct way or indirect way . I do not mean the President of the United States. I mean, do not defend this man, Bill Clinton, and the behavior that he represents - in any manner. Please.

Sincerely,

Mary





To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (36141)2/27/1999 3:55:00 PM
From: Dwight E. Karlsen  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 67261
 
not going to let a bunch of racist, religious zealots get a hold of the country either.

And how did race come into play here? You throw the word around like a proper zealot, unrestrained by factual happenings. Actually, race hasn't even been mentioned at all in these political discussions, not until you pulled the word out of thin air to interject it into your hallucinagenic ramblings.

You should really think about checking into the nearest cult de-programming center and get some help.