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Technology Stocks : 3DFX -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Marketeer who wrote (10900)	2/27/1999 11:47:00 PM
From: Jeff Lins	Respond to of 16960

Your assessment is lacking. For starters, OEM relationships are relationships. In a worst case scenario, we must assume graphic chips are a commodity, in which case the relationship means a great deal. The support, the ability to deliver, etc. STBI is proven in this area. As for marketing checklists, what does V3 not offer? OK, so textures are limited to 256 x 256...not exactly a popular bullet on the old marketing list. In fact, the only thing they are missing is 32bpp color support, and they can fudge it (for the average consumer, DELL and GTW and CPQ customers) with the old "32bit internal rendering" line. They CAN list AGP support. Sure TNT has a better z-buffer but again, it ain't bullet material. The only potential fault is the 16mb limitation. Unfortunately, only the tech-minded will appreciate the fact that this is all that is necessary given V3's 32bpp limitation. So if all else is pretty much equal, TDFX now has a strong relationship with the dominant 3d party cardmaker, a strong brand name in its own right, the legitimate claim of supporting more 3d software than any other chip, and most importantly, V3 will kick EVERY card's ass in the all-mighty benchmarks. Could you be a bit more specific as to why it is that you think the V3 /STBI card will not succeed with OEM's?

To: Marketeer who wrote (10900)	2/27/1999 11:50:00 PM
From: Peter S.	Respond to of 16960

Marketeer, thanks for you opinions but why does V3 fall flat? Most nVidea OEMs are via STB. S3 & ATI are cost effective but not 'better' in terms of performance or 3D features. What is the checklist? Can a TNT2 card compete with the All-in-wonder and NVDA still trade in the 20s? Peter S

To: Marketeer who wrote (10900)	2/28/1999 12:17:00 AM
From: Michael G. Potter	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 16960

If I look at the chipsets that have won positions (and continue to win positions) on major OEMs, I would say that the spec are not as poor as you claim. Let's disregard the fact that STB already said they've won some contracts. V3 will have very clear, very fast 2D in 32 bit It will be AGPx2 (AGPx4 when Intel releases it) 16 meg of ram on board Will score high on the benchmarks V3 has been out in the public for a while now. No sign of the TNT2. Rage Fury is also out and showing up in computers. I have a print catalog for MidWest Micro and they include it in one of their computers already (with a V2 as well in the same box). I spent some time today looking at magazine ads and the websites for Gateway and Dell. I didn't see 32 bit 3D rendering listed anywhere. I didn't see 8 bit stencil buffers listed anywhere. Savage4 and Rage Fury will underperform the V3 in 16 bit 3D benchmarks and 2D benchmarks as well. The 2000 will be very inexpensive. ATI and the Riva 128 are embedded on many motherboards and do not provide anywhere near the specs of competing chips, yet they still have design wins. I'm curious if you work in the industry and have some special knowledge of the current competitions? What are the specs that V3 will be missing that you think will break the chip? Here's one that I think might make a difference - a good OpenGL ICD. Michael

To: Marketeer who wrote (10900)	2/28/1999 1:34:00 AM
From: Chip Anderson	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 16960

You must have missed Tony Tomasi's latest (validated) post about the V3: "Currently Voodoo3 3500 delivers approximately 36 fps at 1600x1200 in Quake2 timedemos." After a couple more driver-tweaks, that means 1600x1200 @ 40+ fps! People have not fully grasped that significance of that. Until Rampage ushers in the true "Next Generation," resolution is the battleground and TDFX has just seized the high-ground. Will this win them OEM contracts? Your guess is as good as mine, but 3Dfx isn't falling behind anyone at this point. Anyone who thinks they are has fallen for the nVidia hype-machine. One of the dangers of being the leader is that you disclose your specs first and then everyone gets to take pop-shots at it. But the proof is in what actually ships. BTW, nVidia sent me a very nice invitation to their TNT2 party at CGD next month. I guess then we will really see if they can match the V3's raw power. Chip stockcharts.com

To: Marketeer who wrote (10900)	2/28/1999 5:09:00 PM
From: Michael Madden	Respond to of 16960

Voodoo3 is not the quantum leap product for 3DFX. And it surprises me that some posters appear to be upset that it's not. It shows a misunderstanding (or forgetfulness) of product cycles in the semiconductor industry. It is very difficult to create a quantum leap in technology in less than 18 months. Voodoo3 was introduced only 12 months after the Voodoo2. Voodoo3 is not the quantum leap product. Rampage is that product and rumor has it that it will be showcased in May. That's 18 months after the Voodoo2 was first introduced at Comdex '97. If you want to evaluate 3DFX on its technological leadership, wait and evaluate Rampage. Voodoo3 was produced on the OEM product cycle. That is, the company first produces the quantum leap product and then create incremental improvements to it every six months until they complete the next quantum leap product. Even then, I think the Voodoo3 is closer to a quantum leap than an incremental improvement. Although it doesn't introduce any new 3D features over the Voodoo2, consider this: - It contains one of the fastest, if not the fastest 2D core. (Yes, this core was first introduced on the Banshee, but how many of you would consider Banshee a successor to Voodoo2? Besides, I am still amazed at the performance and stability of this 2D part considering that it was 3DFX's first in-house attempt at 2D.) - On a single chip, the V3-3500 provides the same level of performance as four TexelFx chips in Voodoo2 SLI. (Six chips if you include the PixelFx chips). And, the Voodoo3 supports higher resolutions than the Voodoo2. At the very least, the Voodoo3 demonstrates the intelligence and efficiency of the engineers at 3DFX. No one should have expected Voodoo3 to be a revolutionary improvement over the Voodoo2. 3DFX never suggested that it would be. It is only a necessary improvement to remain competitive in the OEM market. To say that the Voodoo3 falls flat against the competition is to do the chip injustice. Anyone who is cornered into elaborating on such a statement usually has to fall back on incomplete 32-bit color support, lack of AGP texturing, and no support for large texture maps. All three mainly affect visual quality, and I think the last two are non-issues. AGP Texturing is a performance killer. Large texture maps can be used on a Voodoo3 if broken up into a group of small texture maps. 3DFX could implement this capability at the driver level, although it would hurt performance. Nevertheless, no game currently on the market uses large texture maps. 32-bit color support is the only legitimate gripe. However, look at the competition that does support 32-bit color: NVidia TNT, Savage4, Matrox G200, and Rage128. None of these chips come close to the performance of the Voodoo3 at 16bit color! It only gets worse when going to 32-bit, although the performance penalty on the Rage128 is amazingly small. For the first half of 1999, gamers and OEMs will have to choose between performance and visual quality. Voodoo3 is the performance leader. The other chips have to rely on claims of visual quality to compete with it. In my opinion, gamers and OEMs still prefer performance and price over visual quality. Those chips that deliver exceptional performance or price/performance will sell well. Voodoo3 will definitely be one of those chips. I intentionally left out NVidia's TNT2 and the Matrox G300 because, at the moment, the only information about them are rumored specs. In fact, I am very skeptical about various claims that TNT2 products will ship in April. Where are the product demonstrations? Where are the reviews of pre-production cards? Usually, the product is available at retail four to six months after the first product demonstration. NVidia has suggested that they will demonstrate the TNT2 in March. To me, that means that I won't be able to buy a TNT2 card until July!