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Technology Stocks : Energy Conversion Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: fred whitridge who wrote (3273)	3/1/1999 10:03:00 PM
From: Michael Latas	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 8393

Fred, and all others. I am in the process of narrowing down a couple of hotels/motels in the approximate vicinity of where the meeting will take place in Kettering Ohio. This happens to be a suburb on the southern edge of Dayton. Again, I have posted this before, but for those of you that may not be aware, this community was named after Charles Kettering, the famous inventor who headed up R&D for General Motors, who among other things developed the first electric starter for the Buick that literally killed electric cars. Talk about de-ja vu? One of my favorite quotes from Kettering still hangs on the wall of his former house which was turned into a museum that states, "Solutions, to the most difficult problems, once found, are always simple". And ECD is on the verge of solving some very difficult problems. I'll share another favorite story from Kettering about "some things take time", at another time. Also included will be a couple of places for dinner for Wed. and Thurs., that we can agree upon, as well as breakfast Thursday morning. I will have this narrowed down by the end of the week at the latest. I too have found our discussions to be highly interesting, informative, and fun to compare notes with members of this discussion group. Who all plan on attending, so we can plan accordingly? Regards.

To: fred whitridge who wrote (3273)	3/2/1999 10:36:00 PM
From: fred whitridge	Respond to of 8393

I have just returned from two days of the "16th International Seminar & Exhibit on Primary & Secondary batteries" in Ft. Lauderdale where today was NiMh day. I've often said that the first real value creation at ECD will be via batteries. This conference and the latest 10Q devoid of optical royalties, with an unloaded USSC 5MW machine, etc. renews that belief. Our very own Mike Fetcenko was far and away the best speaker. Well prepared, good slides, spoke well and clearly, answered questions concisely. His talk was "Advanced materials for 100+ wh/kg NIMH Batteries." He claims they are at 105 wh/kg in c cells in the lab now and will soon be going up to 120 wh/kg. This did not seem like pie in the sky: he identified specific materials and process steps that would get them there. My only criticism is that there is a huge lag between what he is seeing in small cells and what consumers are seeing in the field. Yes, Don, I asked him about the current NiMh in the EV1's and it is indeed around 70wh/kg. I asked him when the GMO II would ship and he wouldn't say. This is a weird conference with most presenters revealing deep dark secrets (usually unverified) and engaging in a lot of self promotion. One needs to attend several talks and grab lots of brochures to ascertain "the truth". Some good nuggets: -Nomura research predicted that NiMh sales would be down in 1999 from around 750million cells. Nobody could make sense of that. -Unitrode (chargers and batt management?) pointed out that LiOn is still 40% more expensive. And requires $8 per pack in charge control gear. Presumably they have no ax to grind. -As laptop prices plummet and the machines get smaller, niMh may have an advantage. Several speakers stated that NiMh is more volumetrically efficient than LiOn. (And some said the reverse). -There were lots and lots and lots of presentations on lithium safety which made me think that maybe lithium isn't so safe. There was a presentation by the military on LiOn. They were able to get these puppies to catch fire by firing bullets thru cells. (Why should they care about bullets?) An interesting presentation on LiOn recycling by Toxco of BC, Canada with a nifty picture of "cooling" the battery down to -325 degrees F during the process. Why is it nobody talks about the whole life cycle cost of LiOn? Dessication rooms for assembly are expensive, insurance premiums when Sony blows up a whole prefecture in japan must be expensive, you aren't allowed to ship these bad boys by air, and cryogenic "cooling" during recycling sounds on the pricey side, etc. Plus, they cost more. -Very interesting talk by a Varta guy about a new high voltage SLI (Starting Lighting Ignition) system (aka motherlode of all battery markets) which they are working on with BMW. According to him (a biased producer) NiMh is the only system under consideration for this increase to 42-48volts. Apparently some of these whiz bang luxury cars are being designed with so many gizmos that 12 volts won't cut it any more. He showed specs for a 58volt 10ah cell, admitting this voltage was probably higher than would be adopted. Let us pray for our licensee, Varta on this one.