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Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (37356)	3/8/1999 11:26:00 PM
From: Dwight E. Karlsen	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 67261

Michelle, just because polls say that "the majority" of people believe that abortions should remain legal, I find it curious that you would relegate anyone with a different view as an "extremist". >>When I say someone is extreme, I mean that they deviate from the majority.<< You must also believe then, that gays and lesbians are extremists. They are, after all, very much a minority, a far smaller minority compared to the pro-life people. And how about Muslims in America. Or private schoolers (gee, that means even Chelsea is an extremist). Let's hear it for the extremists then, according to you, Michelle. Go ahead and say it: In your definition of "extremists", gays and lesbians are far-left, extreme left, left-wing extremists. At least we know how you stand. At least you are consistent. I think I've demonstrated that in throwing out the "extremist" label, you are attempting to "isolate" people with differing views, casting them as uncool, unhip, very much out of touch, etc etc. PS - Just because the mainstream media gets away with that, doesn't mean that it flys fine in normal exchanges of view. When news anchors throw out the "extremist" label, nobody can provide a differing view, unless it is a debate format like "cross-fire".

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (37356)	3/9/1999 12:42:00 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

Since public opinion is notoriously volatile, perhaps that is not the best definition of extremist. In any case, the country is divided about evenly on abortion, and the NARAL poll showed a majority against it. Does that mean that, ipso facto, the pro- choice position is now "extreme". Also, in excess of 70% are against partial birth abortion, which NOW and NARAL support. Do you then concede that they are extremist organizations?

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (37356)	3/9/1999 1:23:00 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

I copied this rom the Gallup site, so that you would see that I am not making things up: With respect to the abortion issue, would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life? 98 Jan 16-18 (choice)48(life) 45 97 Nov 6-9 (choice)51(life)40 97 Aug 12-13 (choice)47(life)44 The rest either did not understand the terms, said neither, or had no opinion. Two of them are virtually identical, given the margin of error. One is extremely close. Pro- lifers are extremist?

To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (37356)	3/9/1999 11:20:00 AM
From: Johannes Pilch	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 67261

Preserve us. Surely you must weary of the relentless transport of feminist emotionalism and other sloppy goods. This statement of yours concerning me is ridiculous. > As for Johannes, he seems to believe that being gay/lesbian is a lifestyle choice. That says it all right there. < Firstly, if something seems a certain way, it can by no reasonable measure say “it all right there.” To be reasonable, we must first understand as precisely as possible the positions of our opponent before we claim the opponent's position “says it all right there.” I am sure you will do as you please, but I suggest you first discipline yourself so that you make determinations on what I in fact believe, as opposed to on what I seem, to believe. Secondly, you insinuate here that having a belief “that being gay/lesbian is a lifestyle choice” automatically disqualifies a person from having his opinions on other issues seriously considered by others. This is obviously fallacious. Even if it were proven that being homosexual is not a lifestyle choice, and were I yet to believe it is a lifestyle choice, a person could dismiss my view here while reasonably considering my views elsewhere. Additionally, if my position were “that being gay/lesbian is a lifestyle choice”, it still would not “say it all right there” because there are facts of the homosexuality issue presenting ramifications that homosexual proponents like you apparently refuse to acknowledge. One of these is the fact that the current state of the evidence disallows our believing as a matter of fact that homosexuality has a certifiable genetic cause. While this alone does not allow us to “believe that being gay/lesbian is a lifestyle choice”, it certainly allows us intellectual freedom to at least consider the notion. In other words, the belief “that being gay/lesbian is a lifestyle choice” is a belief over which the evidence yet allows us to reason. Therefore my holding such a belief does not necessarily say “it all right there.” Thirdly, I do not necessarily “believe that being gay/lesbian is a lifestyle choice”, and so obviously this does not say “it all right there”. I believe homosexual behaviour in many cases a choice, though I also believe in some chronic cases it is possibly influenced by environmental factors that work in conjunction with biological conditions. As for its ethical/moral implications I believe homosexuality a philosophical perversity. Morally, I believe it an abomination to my God. On the basis of these two fronts I must reject homosexuality as a viable orientation whatever its origins. (I am not interested in forcing my beliefs here upon anyone. I simply do not want homosexuals and their supporters to, as they have tried repeatedly, force their beliefs upon me.) None of this has anything to do with my opinion that the true extremists in this country are those who champion a woman's right to have her unborn children murdered. (Let us face the facts, Michelle. You people actually support the extermination of unborn people, and that to my way of thinking is terribly extreme). That you would try and use a false portrayal of my position on homosexuality to defend against my opinion of so called pro-choicers about “says it all right there.”