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Strategies & Market Trends : The Final Frontier - Online Remote Trading -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Eric P who wrote (6745)	3/20/1999 10:39:00 AM
From: TFF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 12617

Good Post. The bottom line is in fast moving markets forget about Selectnet or any version thereof and concentrate on executing through an ECN even if you have to move outside the bid/ask spread to do so. Better to be out than watching the market fade quickly away from you while waiting to see of some market maker is going to make your day. This is the reason ECN volume has gone through the roof. Goodbye Selectnet.

To: Eric P who wrote (6745)	3/20/1999 2:53:00 PM
From: TraderAlan	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 12617

Eric, So if you flat out compare discounter transaction costs (commissions and slippage) vs EDT transaction costs (commissions and slippage), do the EDTs really win anymore? At least in a pay for order flow system, the obligation between the wholesale MM and broker gets you filled sometime/somewhere. EDTs are always touted as fast and little slippage. I wonder if that's ever been really true. Alan

To: Eric P who wrote (6745)	3/21/1999 3:03:00 AM
From: JDTrader	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 12617

Hi Eric, Thanks for your response. I am afraid that you have been fortunate enough so far and have yet to be in a position of which I was complaining. Here is what the problem is. I realize that market maker's failure to fill when it is to their advantage is not to be blamed on cyber broker. But it appears as if you are under the impression that the smart key or cyber smart key would get you out of the fast market when you want to. I have to tell you that as a fellow trader, I urge you to take the words of other traders who have paid a hefty price to find out otherwise. Each one of those so called smart routing keys is designed so that they take about ten seconds to confirm your order, identify the best price, and send the order to a specific market maker or ECN. In the fast market, each of those market makers or ECNs generally only offer 100 shares and get hit by someone else before the so called smart keys get a chance to send out the order. The result, unfortunately, is that you end up sitting in front of your monitor and keep canceling the previous order for the price has already fallen lower and placing a new order--only to see the same scenario repeat itself. This whole business of smart keys/smart routing is simply a gimmick to attract those who are not familiar or don't feel comfortable with executing on their own. I admit that in the slow market, and for those long term investors or position traders, these keys work and you get filled, and may even get an improvement in the price. Nevertheless, that is not the cyberbroker's invention or claim to the hall of fame. The Isalnd book or any other ECN like REDI is set up so that it will start from the top, makes its way down and fills you at the best price even if you did not ask for the best price. That is the beauty of the electronic matching offered by all ECNs. Here is the catch about cybertrader. They have added an unnecessary and useless feature to their software that does not allow you as a seller to post an ask price lower than the inside bid in the island book, or as a buyer to post a higher price than the inside ask price in the island book. This, in turn, forces you to try to match the inside price each time and re-enter your order when someone else got that buyer or seller you aimed for. The chances are that you never get filled because you are competing against other day traders who have a great advantage over you. Their software allows them to choose how deep in the book they want to go and will fill them from the top of the book, going down the list until it reaches the price that they put in. This allows them to have a far better chance of getting filled, while still getting the best possible price(s) available. In essence, Cyberboker has taken away the very tool that every experienced trader uses to get out of the hell when the market turns against them. That is mainly because that despite their claims that they have a large number of scalpers trading with them, cybertrader clients are mostly position traders who have a second job after the market closes, or do not rely on their trading to pay their bills. If the market turns against them, they just sit on their position and hope for the best. I wish I had found that out a month ago. Spend some time reading the messages posted in their chat room, which is also available to those in the demo mode, and you know what I mean. I have spoken to almost everyone at their organization and have tried to employ different methods and execution options that they preached to be the best way to execute in the fast market. None of them worked. The only way to get out of the fast market that is going against you is to reach deep and grab those poor souls waiting further down the line (take a reasonable amount of loss in return for getting the hell out of what usually turns out to be your worst nightmare). I have yet to decide what I am going to do with Cybertrader. However, if you are the type of trader who ventures into the trading world of stocks like NSOL, EBAY or other similar stocks while they are in play, think twice about using cybertrader, and their so called smart execution keys when you find yourself on the wrong side of the action. take care,