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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Father Terrence who wrote (33174)	3/23/1999 4:40:00 PM
From: Chuzzlewit	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 108807

Terrence, you are wrong on all counts again. Man is not above all animals. That kind of thinking is nonsense. Man depends on the total ecosphere for his existence. We are mutually dependent. Now look at the lengths to which you go to deny your connection with life: The suckling reaction of an infant is not an instinct but a response to stimuli created by a perceived need within an infant. The defense of a mother (or father) towards his or her child is not instinctive, but a selfish reaction. Fascinating on two counts. First, I could just as easily substituted the words pup and bitch and you would have agreed that these are instinctive behaviors. But because you assumed the focus must be man you attribute rational thought to exactly the sameset of stimuli and behaviors! That is exactly what I meant by an anthropocentric mind set. And engaging in a subtle, but still obvious redefinition of instinct won't hack it. Instinctive simply means innate. Humans are better than other organisms because, at least for the moment, we are on the top of your beloved evolutionary heap. More proof by blatant assertion. No evolutionist in his right mind would argue this. This is theological claptrap. And federal public schools are a blight upon reason and should also, by their very nature, be expunged from existence. Even more fascinating. There are no federal public schools in this country. But beyond this error, are you aware of the fact that the reason that the US achieved economic dominion over Great Britain was the existence of public education? The English were astounded to discover that American workers could read instruction manuals which obviated the lengthy apprentice system. Read about Horace Mann and his success in creating a viable educational system and the very tangible economic fruits of that system. All advances in the sciences have not been due to tribalism, but by the genius of individual men and women, some working against great odds Really? And from where does the money come to support those efforts? I hope I have hit all of your points. Please remind me if there is any point I have not refuted. TTFN, CTC

To: Father Terrence who wrote (33174)	3/23/1999 10:11:00 PM
From: Dayuhan	Respond to of 108807

How was Ghana? Did you get at all tribal? Eat any millet? I almost went there in '79, ended up here instead, for which I am fairly thankful.

To: Father Terrence who wrote (33174)	3/24/1999 3:56:00 AM
From: PiMac	Respond to of 108807

Terrence Bergh, this was an astounding, worthy of contemplation, fact to me when I thought as you. You say <<All advances in the sciences have not been due to tribalism, but by the genius of individual men and women, some working against great odds.>> My fact: Newton and Leibnetz come up with essentially the same Calculus, essentially at the same time, without communication or collaboration. The Calculus, a branch of Mathematics so fundamental that only twice prior, three thousand years apart, did other branches arise. [Greek geometry and Egyptian Measurement] The 'mind fairy' is not what those mathmaticians had in common. It was rather, the European society, or melieu, or tribe, as a whole. These individual geniuses were only playing their part. Another would have replaced them if need be--it was time, as society had created the time. Those men, like all good men, were only doing what they had to do. The great odds you mention were typically from the leaders and great minds of their time. The Royal Academy buggered Newton. Einstein had Heisenberg for torment. Galileo fought the leaders of the Church--great as he, but in a different venue. The great men you think are above the tribe are the ones who stood in the way of more men who society had also created. "Don't follow leaders. Watch your parking meters." -Bob Dylan