To: penni westbrook
From: Juan Valdéz Wednesday, Mar 24 1999 12:19AM ET
I am contacting you via PM for two reasons:
1. You questioned a statement I made, in which you obviously did not understand, so I am going to explain it to you.
2. as a courtesy to you, I am not making it via public forum.
The statement was:
I hate apologist as well, so the feeling is mutual.
I made the statement because of what you said:
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It was obvious they did get off on the wrong foot! It often happens around here. But when LLR did try to add some humor to it, step back, Juan grew very nasty and insulting. And he didn't stop with the one person with whom he was disagreeing; he proceeded to insult every person here with some pretty strong and ugly words. Not a trace of humor in the post.
I went and read some of his other posts, lest I judge too harshly. He enjoys the aggressive, the deprecatory, the mean.
I don't understand meanness.
And I don't tolerate it very well- other people have trouble with religion, bigotry, grammar. I just hate mean.
Message 8468367
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First a few points about your statement and the general situation.
1. How can you possibly know what I could consider "humorous" or not. you do not know me.... your ridiculous assumptions that "I am hurt", and I am this and the other, border on the stupid.
You do not know me and my making a few statements, (Which by the way, are designed on purpose to get exactly the response I received, given the initial argument by your friend), can and will not give you one iota of an idea who I really am... getting to know a person takes a lifetime, yet you people speak as if you knew me.... what a pretentious and arrogant lot!!
2. What makes you think that your and others, had the right to make snide remarks about "Libertarians", Ayn Rand, Reason, and other "smirking" remarks such as "the Drygulch Donkey" etc. etc.....
and then NOT expect retaliation.
Once you cross the line, and make statements as above, you can not ask for, "civility" "manners" or "measure" You and your friends attacked first all I did is retaliated in kind. The difference is... I am better than the lot of you, at least in that department.
Now, along with this statement, and prior to... I read your following statements.
# 1________________________________________________________________
One of the problems of knowing each other for lo, these many years, is that we all recognize each other's sense of humor, the history of the phrases, (shall we discuss it?)the person behind the words. New posters must feel as if they fell down the rabbit hole. Juan probably thought you were serious about getting rid of his donkey; he didn't realize that we love donkeys here! Why, Ol' Sal has her own bedroom at Feelies, though we usually make Drygulch sleep outside. I think you should apologize to the donkey, and I bet Juan will feel much more relaxed about being here.
Doctor penni, Ph.M.D. (Doctor of Phoney Mediation)
Message 8462807
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You really thought I am that stupid ?, no I am not talking about the "being serious about the donkey.... but about your implied assumption of my not "understanding your humor"....
Once again, if you feel free to make as many remarks as the above and others, what makes you think that I should not retaliate with my own humor? Again, obviously you did not like it.
# 2______________________________________________
Gosh, I don't even know what we were not agreeing on. I agree with everybody. Almost.
You know, every thread needs a villain. Without one, we begin to get irritable. Emile, favorite resident villain, has been gone too long.
A villain has to be someone who is impervious to the absolute worst barbs and insults, don't you think? If people appear vulnerable or fragile, it takes all the fun out of things. Then we start liking them.
Message 8463379
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There you go with your type of humor, personally I do not mind it, but if you do it.... then you should not be afraid of retaliation. that is what you got... except it was given to you under my prescription.
Frankly, the more I analyze the thing the more I realize what a bunch of hypocrites all you people that "felt insulted" really are.
# 3 _______________________________________________________
Well done! And I know taht Juan is going to realize just how hard that was for you, too. And graciously accept your overtures, well, not accept too much of your overtures, we've had enough of THAT. And now we can move on to the next electrifying topic., whatever it may be.
Message 8463455
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Excuse me, but allow me to tell you that you sounded ridiculous, particularly when your friend started using the statements he used.
Again, you people clamor surprise and alarm at my reaction, but do not realize that all I did was to respond in kind (once again).... except I am better at it.
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Now.... as for the "apologist" part read everyone of those statements, and frankly at first are a little confusing as one could read them as you are being the "perfect host" and are attempting to bring "cordiality and calm to the home"... but at the same time you are trying NOT to side neither with me, nor with LRR... You are trying to "accommodate" and make feel better both sides.
Then on top of that you attempt to use "humor". (Your style, expecting no reaction....)
So on closer look, all you are doing is "apologizing" ahead of time, it seems you are afraid of taking a position.
Here is some more of the same "ambiguity" as if you were afraid of taking a position or a stand... and so you take "none"... you ride the middle line.
# 4 _______________________________
I'm not QUITE as intolerant as I expressed, but I do feel that there's an element of passive aggressive stuff going on with some people's lateness-- I have a friend who is very controlling and she is habitually late. One day when she showed up an hour late for a lunch date, I said something about it, how I had been waiting and that I thought she should have let me know and she said, well, it's just a lunch date - it's not like it was important. Excuse me? Oddly she was FURIOUS with me for pointing out to her that she was always late. She never forgave me!
I have no sense of direction, but I know this so I always leave very early to allow for getting lost.
Message 8447845
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And more…..
# 5
I have no idea what I believe (wimp that I am) --but have found that I enjoy the music, and the people, the fellowship if you will- the minister's preaching, and the hour of enforced peace of the service. It's probably becuase of my upbringing.
No one has asked me yet if I'm saved. I guess if they don't get specific, I can say sure. Or, I think so. Or I could make their day and say no.
Message 8436791
Then the best one…. The opening statement at the “Rambi” thread
In the Silicon Investor world of aggressive, determined, dominant and unyielding personalities, most of whom are ready and willing to assert themselves and their opinions, Rambi alone has none. She is not interested in being persuaded or in persuading. Humor, fantasy, good music and wine are welcome, along with any really hot stock tips, but she would prefer no extended personal posting of angst, persistent proselytizing, interminable arguing, or completely boorish behavior. Of course, as that is almost impossible and also potentially boring, a great deal of latitude will be allowed. Because frankly, Rambi doesn't really care that much. She probably won't even be here. Leave your weapons and your ego at the door.
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All I read in the above posts is that you seem to be “apologizing” for “being here”…. You seem to NOT be willing to take a side in any specific issue….
You have no sense of direction... indeed, (and I am not talking about your geographical location) but about your lack of decisiveness that is reflected in the posts where you are "talking about me".
In fact you did not addressed me directly until I did, in spite of the fact that you continued to "talk about me"....
I view such as a person that can not take a firm stand in a specific issue, and "dances between the line in an attempt to "keep everyone happy"... afraid to create a discord. I view such as someone that "apologizes" for being here.
So in that sense I referred to you as an apologist. Ayn Rand says this:
<b"Compromise does not satisfy, but dissatisfies everybody; it does not lead to general fulfillment, but to general frustration; those who try to become all things to all men, end up by not being anything to anyone."
~ Ayn Rand
If you have a position, I suggest you take a stand and defend it, regardless of the consequences. However, that is only my opinion. You do what you think is best.
As for me, I have repeated it many times before... I posted because of your friend Chris. I can not stand those bastards, and I am convinced these people are a serious threat, you MAY not consider it.
I KNOW THEY ARE, BELIEVE ME I KNOW !!!
Now... I came and said my piece.... then your friend the LRR started an argument with me..... I responded, and further when I realized all he (or she, I do not know), wanted was to argue senselessly, without end, I simply told him to piss off.
Then he wanted more.... and more.... so I obliged.
Now if you cannot understand all this, then so be it, I DO NOT CARE.
Understand, I took the time to put this together because I made a statement and I back up my statements.
Finally let me give you more Ayn Rand:
"So long as men desire to live together, no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. When a man attempts to deal with me by force, I answer him--by force.
It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had the right to choose: his own."
~ Ragnar Danneskjold
Now remember... I addressed LRR exclusively, until you and others got involved. once again, I merely replied in kind.
Nothing more, and of course my opinion.
No need for a response.
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