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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Krowbar who wrote (33584)	4/1/1999 6:20:00 PM
From: E	Respond to of 108807

<< I wonder why super-Cristians call themselves "born again". It is an insult to innocent newborn children. The proper term should be "corrupted again">> You're even harsher than I am, Del! I think of the 'born again' label as more touching than anything else. Many 'born again' people are extraordinarily nice, kind, good people. (We haven't been entirely lucky (or entirely unlucky, either; we have Sidney, for example) on this thread in that regard, I realize.) I suspect the phrase feels right and fitting to some of those people because there was, before the change they call being born again, some awful thing happening in their lives and minds, for example a sort of psychic bleakness, or a feeling of meaninglessness, and when they chose to imbue their lives with this pre-made, articulated meaning-structure that even comes supplied with a rare thing in our society, a loving community, (loving to each other, I hasten to add) which they refer to (and it can bring tears to my eyes when I hear this phrase used, so I think it makes me jealous,) as their 'church family,' well, when they chose that, I am sure that it made a great difference in the lives of many of these people, such a difference that this shift from the pre-super-Christian life to the new membership in the community of credulists actually feels to them like a rebirth. Also, as if the great gifts of meaning (however specious) and a community weren't enough to make one feel reborn, the particular beliefs they've bought actually do define them not as adults, but as little children. Children who are in a perpetual state of obeisance and fear and adoration and obedience to their all powerful and very testy Celestial Parent. (Also, this all makes them feel very important and superior, which i would guess that few of them felt before. That could be a reinforcement, also, of the feeling of having been reborn.) I think it's perfectly understandable that they should call themselves 'born again,' and i'm sure that many or even most of them do feel that way. And i don't begrudge them their born-again feelings or any sweetness it brings to their lives, and don't even feel comfortable saying they have been 'corrupted' by their suspension of disbelief. I just wish they weren't so all fired determined to get their religion special status and drive it down the throats of others in such venues as the public schools.

To: Krowbar who wrote (33584)	4/1/1999 10:31:00 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Of all the religions of the world, it is only Jesus Christ and His Church which was foretold by prophets hundreds of years in advance of His coming. Here are a few prophecies to confirm this statement. Christ would come out of Israel (Num 24:17-19, Isa 11:1,49:7, Heb 7:14). Christ would be descended from Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Gen12:2;17:19,Num 24:17). Christ would be born of the family of David (Gen 49, Isa 11, Rom 1:3). He would be the light of the world until the end of time (Isa 49:6, Lk 2:32). He would be the Redeemer (Isa 49:7,26,59:20,60:16, Rom 11:26). He would be the Savior (Jesus) (Isa 19:20,43:3, Lk 2:11, Acts 13:47, 1Tim 1:15). He would be the Messiah (Christ) (Dan 9:25, Jn 1:41). He would be the King of kings (Dan 2:37, 1Tim 6:15, Rev 17:14). He would be the King of Israel (Isa 44:6, Zeph 3:15, Jn 1:49). He would be the Lord of Lords (Deut 10:17, Ps 110:1, Rev 17:14). He would be the Prince of Peace (Isa 9:6, Acts 5:13, Eph 2:2, Rev 1:5). He would be the Son of God (Ps 2:9, Rom 1:4). He would be the 'Mighty GOD', (Isa 9:6, Rev 1:8). He would be a Prophet (Deut 18:18, Jn 3:34,17:8). He would come to serve and not to be served (Zech 3:8, Mt12:18, Mk 10:45). He would bear the sins of mankind (Isa 53:4, Mt 8:17, 1Pet 2:24). He would be made to be sin (Isa 53:6, 2Cor 5:21). There would come a day of salvation said the Lord (Isa 49:3, 2Cor 6:2). He would establish a new covenant (Gen 17:2,19, Isa 49:8, Jer 31:31, Mt 26:28, Mk 14:24, Lk 22:20, Heb 8:8). In Him all nations would be blessed (Gen 12:2, Gal 3:8). The time of His coming was specified (Dan 9:25, Lk 1:31). Christ would be born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2, Mt 2:1,6, Lk 2:4,11,15). Christ would be born of a virgin (Isa 7:14, Lk 1:27, Rev 12:5). The Messiah would be God manifest in the flesh (Isa 9:6, 1Tim 3:16, Heb 10:5). The children of Bethlehem would be slain (Jer31:15, Mt 2:17-18). He would spend His childhood in and be called out of Egypt (Hosea 11:1, Mt 2:13-15,19-20). Christ's coming would be announced by a forerunner (Isa 40:3-5, Mt 3:3,11:10, Mk 1:2, Jn 1:23). He would have fishermen as disciples (Jer 16:16, Mt 4:18-19, Mk 1:16-17).