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Pastimes : Grinders and Gripers Coffee Shop -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Savant who wrote (3767)	4/3/1999 10:23:00 AM
From: The Osprey	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4201

Bookmarked it Savvy.Thanks. You can tell while I have been on my sabatical that the shop sure deteriorates quite rapidly.Time constraints and technology are prohibitive. It shall be business as usual I am sure in due course. Regards, The Osprey HAPPY EASTER

To: Savant who wrote (3767)	4/3/1999 11:10:00 AM
From: The Osprey	Respond to of 4201

Another good article on message Boards: Shorts on Message Boards Do you even know how "shorts" work ? They bet that a stock will go down,just like you bet a stock will go up. Now a year ago when I asked broker friends of mine if the internet message boards will have any affect on a stock. They ALL laughed at me and said those idiots having an affect on a stock ! Well I asked those same friends this last week, and the answer from all YES! message boards and "shorts"(some) can manipulate with lies, and deceit. Let me tell you what I have seen on two different boards . One stock was $8 and a "pack" of shorts come on and posted total lies about SEC violations,and "class action lawsuits".There was 15-20 of these manipulating "shorts". The stock went from $8 to $6 overnight without cause -just these manipulating "packs" posting total lies. Another board I had seen about 15 months ago had a bunch of "regulars" on the board. Problem was these "regulars" were the nicest bunch of mostly elderly people you would want to know and talk with. The stock was about $18 and then came "the pack" of shorts. There were again 15-20 of them. They got the elderly so scared that they would not fight and just stopped posting. Thus leaving the board totally to these manipulating "shorts". The stock went from $18 to $10 without reason just lies posted by these liars. Do you understand a little now? Let me say this to you and I want you and the whole board to think about this statement. IT IS EASIER TO SCARE PEOPLE INTO SELLING THAN IT IS TO SCARE PEOPLE INTO BUYING A STOCK. Now think about that, you have elderly that invest and find their way to the message boards only to see false posts about "SEC Violations" and "Class action suits" or you have a Yuppie with a kid to put in college going to these message boards only to see posts by 15-20 (probably 5 or 6 under alias) "pack of shorts" posting the same false stuff about SEC Violations or lawsuits or "there's bad news coming out" ....what do you think they will do ? Let me ask you people who don't like my attacking back ways, language etc... Do you think for that elderly person and that Yuppie with the college kid -that it would be easier to take the money out of the stock with these rumors and put the money back into the bank? Another question :do you think it is easier to take money out of the bank and invest it into stock....or easier to take the money out of the stock and put it back into a safe bank ? It's easier to sell the stock and put the money into the bank for nervous people like the elderly and the Yuppie who needs college funds. THAT'S WHO THE PACK OF SHORTS PRAY ON AND DEPEND ON. They bet on a stock to go down-not up! . Understand? And they have just as much money and risk as you. But they have the edge of fear, lies, falsehoods to post and pray on the nervous. Longs don't have that. Credit for post to skidiver3

To: Savant who wrote (3767)	4/3/1999 11:15:00 AM
From: The Osprey	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4201

Another good article regarding Debentures: Convertible Debentures & Stock Prices When a company issues a variable conversion debenture (and usually at a discount to average trailing price, eg. 80%) they are asking for real trouble. Whether these debentures are reg s or not, the holders of these debentures, smell blood and they sell the shares of the company short against the block, in this case the block is their own debenture. This is one of the few cases that short selling of non margin stock is feasible (by anyone but a MM), since they sell against their stock. Now, the stock declines under the wave of short selling, the debenture they hold can cover additional shares, thus they sell more short bringing the price further down in the process. At some point it makes sense for them to cover or convert and deliver the shares from the conversion. All this could be foreseen. The holders of the debentures do not wait the 40 or 45 days until conversion to go into action, they start shorting with the debenture at hand. Lets say the stock is at 1, they short for each thousand face value of their debenture 1000 shares (they do not convert, yet), the stock drops to .5. Now their debenture can buy 2000 shares but they are short only 1000 shares, so, they go in and short another 1000 shares. Guess what that causes the stock to go to .25, which now lets them short another 2000 shares, so the shorting volume increases as they short more. Finally, they get the wind of some potential good developments and they start either converting their shares to stock (and deliver the stock which was converted at values lower, at least 20% than their last shorting) or going in and outright buying (with the money made from the shorting since they got paid back by the investor every penny of the money they put to buy the debenture and then some) the stock to cover their shorts. For them it is a win-win situation and since the size of the debenture is very large relative to the normal demand for the stock, the stock collapses according to plan. Credit for post to Zeev Hed