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Pastimes : Kosovo -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: nuke44 who wrote (2250)	4/6/1999 9:31:00 PM
From: Broken_Clock	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 17770

I'd rather live on lala land than have blood on my hands. Better to die with the conviction of a pacifist than as a self justified murderer. I guess it's hard for some who have been brain washed by the military(or perhaps you learned this prior to joining the military; I know many who serve in the military who still retain the ability to reason) into believing that the end justifies the means to see otherwise. Fortunately, those in command of people such as yourself are smart enough to have other opinions than yours...or do you read articles/news that give views in opposition to yours? Do you hold to the views espoused by the Joint Chiefs? They did not give an endorsement to BC on this insane bombing mission. I do notice a tendency that you have....when cornered by logic and common sense you resort to name calling and fallacial arguments, much like Clinton and his ilk.

To: nuke44 who wrote (2250)	4/6/1999 10:08:00 PM
From: George Papadopoulos	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 17770

>Is there anyone else here that is unaware of Greece's ties to the ethnic Serbs and their motives for not supporting NATO actions against Serbia? Greek people are overwhelmingly supporting the Serbs. Why? Well, of course, same religion is a big factor but another one is that we like them, they are nice people, they visit Greece often for vacations and business and generally we get along just fine. We have also got to know the Albanians (read my father's experience I posted some time ago). They are Muslim, so that is not a plus (personally I could care less what religion they practice). But their illegal entry to Greece has only brought increased crime and suffering...and before the bombs fell on the Serbs they were in their homes...now they are massing even closer to the Greek borders....NATO bombs have made the possibility of more refugees in Greece, more crime, and less jobs for Greek young people with about 10% current unemployment rate...THAT is the fear all over EU in where Allbright wants to dump them...a few thousand here and a few thousand there and a few at Guantanamo ain't gonna cut it....bombing is making it worse but the US leadership seems oblivious to the reality on the ground and especially oblivious to the suffering of the refugees... >Is anyone else here not aware that one of the most critical mission's of NATO over the past fifty years following their mission to stand against the Warsaw Pact was to keep Greece and Turkey from going to all out war against each other? Explain how in the world is helping to do this?????????? >Is their anyone else here that is unaware that the war(s) in the former Yugoslavia were moving inexorably towards involving Greece in a conflict in Macedonia and possibly Albania? Are u blind or what? The bombs have MOVED it much closer than before!!!!!Hello? >Is anyone else unaware that any actions on the part of Greece that could be remotely interpreted as hostile to the Muslims in those areas left over from Turkey's Ottoman Empire would be the impetus to set Greece and Turkey back at war? You know nothing...please hold the Greece Turkey commentary... Have u signed up to bring the 9 Albanians to your neighborhood yet? George

To: nuke44 who wrote (2250)	4/7/1999 1:02:00 AM
From: RavenCrazy	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 17770

nuke44 - You say a lot I disagree with. Easy enough, since I have no strong political position on the Kosovo issue except to insist that it's much more complex than first appears and in no way a black and white situation. But your statements below are, I think, valid considerations. At the same time, my own conclusions, if ever found, are certainly also tempered by the lifelong guilt I've felt over our not stopping the holocaust. But Christopher is making some important points about following laws if we are going to make them. And I am not very comfortable about the picture of future bedfellows forming in my mind. So I just continue to read and to focus on the children suffering, whether they be frightened, innocent Serbian children in bomb shelters or hungry, displaced Albanian children who may well have witnessed the murders of their fathers. Quoting you and important points: >>Is there anyone else here that is unaware of Greece's ties to the ethnic Serbs and their motives for not supporting NATO actions against Serbia? Is anyone else here not aware that one of the most critical mission's of NATO over the past fifty years following their mission to stand against the Warsaw Pact was to keep Greece and Turkey from going to all out war against each other? Is their anyone else here that is unaware that the war(s) in the former Yugoslavia were moving inexorably towards involving Greece in a conflict in Macedonia and possibly Albania? Is anyone else unaware that any actions on the part of Greece that could be remotely interpreted as hostile to the Muslims in those areas left over from Turkey's Ottoman Empire would be the impetus to set Greece and Turkey back at war?<< This whole thing is very, very complicated. I'm amazed how many people are so certain they are a hundred percent right. We can't even at this point be certain upon whom to rely for totally accurate information. I learned many years ago through a relationship with Central America that grew quite deep and intimate that what you read in the papers and see on television is completely able to be total lies. I don't know yet. Personal feelings always enter in; I am of Greek origin and love both the country and people of Greece. But while I don't know, 3 and 4 year olds are dying, and NO ONE has yet to make a case for that being right. Raven