To: jbe who wrote (34449 ) 4/11/1999 11:02:00 PM From: E Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 108807
Hi, jbe, from E's H, aka N. <<let me point out that if Jesus had been nothing but a traditional believing Jew, he would not have been the founder of a new world religion. Even if others founded it in his name,>>But the original Jesus was not the founder of a new world religion. A new religion was founded on his dead body. On the body of a dead Jew, a layer of innovations was laid down by entrepreneurial successors eager to distance themselves from the traditional Judaism that had allowed the development of a self destructive, violent policy toward Rome (that is, they took up arms against an immensely superior force.) <<(I rather doubt that if Jesus had been that attached to The Law, his followers would have jettisoned it so fast, even given their eagerness to convert the Gentiles.) >> James, the brother of Jesus, inherited the leadership of Jesus's group. There was no jettisoning. James was famous in piety and fidelity to temple Judaism, that is, to Jesus's religion-- he was known for the calluses on his knees earned in orgies of prayer at the Jerusalem temple. This branch of piety continued a number of years after the death of Jesus, until the competitive Pauline variant, which rejected the Law, triumphed. But the closest immediate followers of Jesus remained observant Jews just like Jesus. (What differentiated them from mainstream Judaism was primarily the notion that Jesus would shortly return and establish God's kingdom on earth, as he had promised he would.) Jesus was, in fact very attached to the Law, judging from the NT: Mathew 5:17-20...[I've added bold.) "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven...." The above was Jesus talking, according to the New Testament. If there are still any doubts about whether Jesus embraced the Old Testament so ardently he was squeezing it to death, please consider Matthew 5: 21-22....(Still Jesus talking.) "You have heard that it was said to those of ancient times, 'You shall not murder'; and 'whoever murders shall be liable to judgment.' But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, 'You fool,' you will be liable to the hell of fire." In other words, what he is saying here, in the New Testament, is that the Law made one liable to judgment if one murdered. But Jesus decided to carry it even further -- even thought crimes, like feeling anger toward a sibling, made one liable to judgment. And God forbid you should say 'You fool,' because then, Jesus said, you should burn in hell! Jesus was an ultra, a Jewish fundamentalist. N.