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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (34727)	4/13/1999 7:58:00 PM
From: E	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

I have been over this terrain exhaustively with E.V. (I don't spell out his name, because i understand he searches for it, and that that might attract him.) The history of intercommunal antagonism in the period before Christians got hold of the Roman state and empire shows only the normal antagonisms attendant on the competitive separation of two religious groups, with the exception of an obscure set of riots in Alexandria in which Christians and other groups were attacked by Jews, there is no basis, none, for asserting that Jews initiated campaigns of physical violence against Christians. *There is, however, a long and deep literature of historical calumny* making this claim.** This literature has been subject to overwhelming scholarly deconstruction and has been discredited in detail. The story is told compactly in James Parkes's, The conflict of the Church and the Synagogue, A Study in the Origins of Antisemitism. The great unending persecutions of the Jews by Christians, of course, unfold following the Christianizing of the Roman state, when the tool of legislation came into the hands of leaders disposed to believe lies about the Jews and about the origins of their own beliefs. An obvious point: Jews were never able to take out their anger against Christians through state power. They had no state. Any specific allegation of a Jewish pogrom against Christians you might want to present as 'evidence' I would be happy to comment on. Please be specific. Please point out any passages in the relevant portions of the New Testament, Acts - Revelation, that allege Jewish, not Roman, killing of Christians. N.

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (34727)	4/13/1999 8:31:00 PM
From: E	Respond to of 108807

Post Script: I should have mentioned that in the Alexandrian riots, the Jews, a privileged group in Alexandrian society, were in a violent conflict (around a power struggle) with Greeks, Egyptians and Christians, and in it, Greeks, Egyptians, Christians and Jews all died; and the violence was not directed by Jews selectively at Christians-- they happened to be part of the rioting crowds. Also: I am well aware of the story in Acts of the stoning to death of Stephen. You should know that this is widely regarded as a fabrication, and I might point out, it hardly fits the description of a 'pogrom' or of 'organized killing.' It does fit the paradigm of the growing tension of the competing religions in that period. N.

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (34727)	4/14/1999 8:36:00 AM
From: nihil	Respond to of 108807

Remember, Saul the Tentmaker, a Pharisee of Pharisees, kept the clothes of the mob stoning Stephen the Deacon (who really asked for it according to Acts). He was a persecutor of Christians and in my opinion deserved hanging. After what Peter (or God) did to Ananias and Sapphira I might have chucked a stone at him (or Him) myself. Killing James the Just by the mob was inexcusable. The Proto-Christians expected an early end to everything. Martyrdom merely sped up things a little, and few believing Christians seemed to care. This is very annoying to their persecutors. According to the Gospels, Jesus mocked the High Priest and Pontius Pilate. Not a good move. He should have taken the 5th or pled innocent by reason of insanity. I would have voted for that verdict.