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To: Chuzzlewit who wrote (34845)	4/14/1999 3:48:00 PM
From: jbe	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Very wise post, Chuzzlewit. Especially the final paragraph. Joan

To: Chuzzlewit who wrote (34845)	4/14/1999 10:52:00 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 108807

" For if I can show just one instance of patent falsehood, the inescapable conclusion must be that the bible cannot be the product of an incontrovertibly correct deity." Every historical period and every era holds their own perceptions and prejudices shaped by their unique social and cultural experiences. Each age and each ethnic group develops their own set of values from these unique experiences. In the context of this worldview, all values must be relative. Within this weltanschuang, relativity is the only absolute. Outside this absolute, there can be no standard to measure moral and ethical values beyond one's own social universe. Things are seen as we are, and not as they are. Since man is limited by this social relativity, he cannot develop a universal standard of truth. An analogy may help. A mechanic, a doctor, a dentist, a body man and a minister all approach an automobile accident. The doctor will immediately concentrate on the medical aspects, the dentist on the teeth, the body man on the damage to the car and the minister will concentrate on the spiritual condition of the person. Each will see and remember the accident in the context of their training and worldview. Their perceptions and memories will be conditioned by their professions. Although there is a totality of facts that exists, each person is limited by their educational and social conditioning. Each person can only see and recount his own narrow perception. This is what man faces when he tries to analyze morality, ethical values and historical events without an accurate universal standard of truth. We are limited by our own social and cultural conditioning. Without God, man simply lacks an eternal and absolutely accurate measuring stick to measure reality and truth. This is the state of man without God and his divine Word or revelations. Man can only evaluate and see things from his own narrow perspective. God sees all things as they are. God sees all things. Unlike man, He does not possess a limited and relativistic knowledge of events and things but an absolute and comprehensive knowledge of all things in their essence. He is both the giver and the keeper of the Universal Standards of Weights and Measures in morals and ethics. This is why the revelations in the Word of God transcend the prejudices of all historical eras, cultures and ethnic groups. It is an absolute and eternal measuring stick that never varies because it is based on absolute truth and reality. It captures the essence of every historical event. It escapes the relativistic prejudices of eras and cultures. The Word of God gives us eternal truths that transcend all our cultural and social conditioning. It cuts through all historical and cultural eras and unfolds eternal reality. When you observe the historical and social weaknesses of the ancient Hebrew culture contained in the Old Testament, you are simply looking at the imperfect wrapping paper and not the eternal precepts hidden in the wrapping paper. The Word of God, the divine precepts, are always contained in the wrapping paper of culture and transmitted through the vehicle of language, but the spiritual observer--with the aid of the Holy Spirit--removes the defective cultural wrapping paper and views the pure crystals of eternal truth hidden within. The Greek and the Hebrew languages were the vehicles and the wrapping paper was the Hebrew and Greek cultures. This principle was clearly evident in the life and words of Jesus. He lived his life and spoke His Words while in the rush and anxiety of everyday life. He spoke the relativistic languages of Greek and Hebrew and was immersed in the Hebrew culture, but He always spoke words of Eternal Truth and He never sinned. The crowds were all around Him demanding His attention and distracting His mind, but every one of His Words are Words of Eternal Truth that transcend all cultures, historical eras and time. His Eternal Words clearly identify Him as Divine. It is the same with all the Divinely inspired Words of God. The precepts contain eternal truths. They transcend all ages and cultures, and speak to the essence of truth and the heart of man today, as they did in ancient Hebrew culture as well as the Christian era. The horrible cultural wars, battles, sins and weaknesses are simply the wrinkled wrapping paper and vehicle of cultural transmission. To prove this principle, isolate yourself in quietness and solitude and try to create even one page of words of eternal truth--words that transcend your culture, ethnicity, social background and historical era; words--precepts--untouched by time, age and social conditioning. You will quickly find that all of your words are tainted by your previous social and cultural conditioning. You will soon see your own limitations and come to the conclusion that Jesus and the Word of God are Eternal and not the product of a culturally conditioned and limited human being. You will find that Jesus was no mere man, but the divine Son of God who died for the sins of mankind. Emile

To: Chuzzlewit who wrote (34845)	4/14/1999 11:45:00 PM
From: Lee Fredrickson	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Chuzzlewit, No wonder I've got you bookmarked... The fundamental analysis is greatly appreciated by a still learning investor. The larger attraction was stated quite succinctly in your post #34845. Our beliefs regarding religion vs. spirituality are nearly identical. However, to the following-- <Perhaps a concept of God is required by many people to drop their immediate concerns and think of the world in larger, more flexible and less selfish terms.>-- I'd have to add the observation that the concept of God is required by many to assuage fear of the unknown; and has been used by many others to control those fearful souls. What a blessing and a curse has the Agricultural Surplus turned out to be! Lee

To: Chuzzlewit who wrote (34845)	4/20/1999 8:56:00 AM
From: O'Hara	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

><>...Good morning Chuzzlewit...><> Your post in response to my questions below, was not responsive at all. I'd like to know your thoughts on the following...><> concerning the beginnings of the many various nations of people in this world. Providing of course, that you have any. Also, I would like your thoughts, again if you have any, concerning the glaring absence of Cain in the genealogy of Adam. I asked this in two previous posts but you have not yet responded. If you have no thoughts on these two issues, I would understand. Thanks for your consideration. Shalom...><>