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Pastimes : Kosovo -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: jlallen who wrote (3895)	4/15/1999 6:21:00 PM
From: MulhollandDrive	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 17770

I'm not so sure. How much discretion did that pilot have about firing? According to the article, he says he "thought" it "appeared" that it was a military column and that they "may" have been responsible for the burning houses? I think if I'm going to fire a missile at a convoy of living human beings I want to be damn sure what I'm shooting at. Listen, I know the military people are getting a lot of propaganda to help their psychology in battle, but the bottom line here is supposedly we have the technical ability to see target configurations to within something like 5". We're deliberately flying our planes so high that the pilots can't get a good look at what they're bombing. Again, so much for taking all necessary precautions to prevent "collateral damage". That is a lie. bp

To: jlallen who wrote (3895)	4/15/1999 6:31:00 PM
From: Douglas V. Fant	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 17770

jlallen, Once the Apaches go in , we'll probably see heavier casualties on both sides.... Apaches on attack alert GREG SEIGLE Washington DC The deployment this week of US Army Boeing AH-64A Apache attack helicopters to Albania gives NATO military leaders the option to intensify strikes against Serb military and police units operating in Albania. The 24 Apaches will form part of the 2,000-strong 'Task Force Hawk' being drawn from US Army Europe. The Apaches, which will come from the 11th Aviation Regiment, will be supported by 26 Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk utility and Boeing CH-47D heavy-lift helicopters. Although the Apaches can destroy a wide array of Serb targets deep inside Yugoslavia, the aircraft are "very vulnerable" when not accompanied by artillery and air support, current and former US Army aviation officials told Jane's Defence Weekly. Apaches are most effective when used in concert with artillery and air forces, not when they act alone, the officials said. The task force will include a 350-strong artillery battalion equipped with 18 Multiple-Launch Rocket Systems (MLRSs). Each MLRS can fire two Army Tactical Missile Systems (ATACMSs). Each of these dispenses 950 M74 bomblets to a maximum range of 165km. "From a planner's perspective, I always plan to use the Apaches with artillery and air power" such as the US Air Force (USAF) A-10 Thunderbolt II, said one US Army aviation official, a former Apache pilot stationed in the Pentagon. "Having A-10s and artillery and attack aircraft with you increases your chance of success and mitigates your risk. "We learned early on that when you use combined weapon systems [such as the MLRS and A-10s] with Apaches, you greatly increase their lethality," said the official. "Without them, you're cutting away at [the Apache's] abilities." Deployed near the Kosovo border, the ATACMS fired by the MLRS could help soften Serb defences before a co-ordinated Apache attack. The MLRS 270A1 launchers use off-axis guidance techniques to prevent enemy radars from plotting their trajectory and directing counter-battery fire. To co-ordinate deep-attack operations, 'Task Force Hawk' will include a 180-strong Deep Operations Control Centre that will include air-liaison, fire-support and air-defence cells. The Apaches routinely train with other aircraft such as A-10 close air-support aircraft, which would attack armoured vehicles and fighters deployed to suppress enemy air defences. The AH-64A, which proved its value as a 'tankbuster' during the 1990-91 Gulf War, is ideally suited for "ducking and hiding, sneaking up on the enemy" in the mountainous terrain of Yugoslavia, said a retired colonel who commanded Apache units during that war. Although Apaches can fire their laser-guided AGM-114 Hellfire missiles at targets from up to 9km away, they are considered vulnerable to Yugoslavia's 600 shoulder-held surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), such as the Russian-made Strela-2 (SA-7 'Grail'). "It's a perfect helicopter to take into the attack," he said. "But you cannot use an Apache just like an air force strike aircraft. They need the right support. If they go in anywhere and there's a Serb SA-7 behind them, they're dead." US Army Aviation officials all agreed that Apaches could be downed by small arms fire, tanks, artillery, aircraft, and more likely, mobile SAMs such as the SA-7, Strela-3 (SA-14 'Gremlin') and Igla-1 (SA-16 'Gimlet'). The AH-64As can carry either up to 16 Hellfire missiles or 38 2.75-inch 76mm rockets, in addition to 1,200 rounds for its 30mm cannon. However, Apaches are often loaded with only eight Hellfires to carry more rockets and cannon ammunition, officials said. Task Force Hawk also includes a mechanised battalion-minus equipped with M2 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles and M1A1 main battle tanks for forceprotection, and a 580-strong logistics unit. Additional reporting by Ian Kemp JDW News Editor Jane's Defence Weekly

To: jlallen who wrote (3895)	4/15/1999 6:34:00 PM
From: MulhollandDrive	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 17770

I did a bit of editing on this account (in italics) I'm not so sure I would be too proud of this. From the pilots account: After identifying more than 60 vehicles, he spotted a further three "uniform shaped dark green vehicles". (hmmmm, I guess everyone better think twice about driving their SUV's looks like they may be fair game in a war) "I work my way back up to the road and saw another house that had just been set ablaze and a three-vehicle convoy moving south-east about a click (kilometre) from the freshest burning house," he said. "They come to a stop at the next house down the road. "I am convinced now the VJ and MUF (army and military police) forces are working their way down towards Djakovica and the refugees and are preparing to set this next house on fire." (Convinced? Really? ) Activating targeting equipment, the pilot said he made several passes over the vehicles "to ensure that they are in fact military vehicles". )(Ensure? Since we now know that they were in fact NOT military vehicles, how did he go about "ensuring" this to his satisfaction? WAG?) "I roll in on two passes to get a close look both with my eyeballs and my targeting pod," he said "I make a decision at that point (garbage in, garbage out) that these are the people responsible for burning down the villages that I have seen so far. "I roll in, put my system on the lead vehicle and execute a laser-guided bomb attack on that vehicle destroying the lead vehicle." He said that the aircraft were then low on fuel and had to pull out of the area. (Ooops, haste makes waste?) He then described how he passed on the target co-ordinates and a general description of the vehicles to another pilot who then also attacked.