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Pastimes : Kosovo -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Broken_Clock who wrote (3948)	4/15/1999 11:02:00 PM
From: D. Long	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 17770

<<Under your logic, then the German soldiers that tried to assassinate Hitler were not justified in their actions and were traitors, therefore their hanging was just. The Germans that stated at Nuremburg, "I was only following orders" should have been immediately released. Your logic is truly amazing. You have just now condoned anything the Serb soldiers might do if it is OK'd by their "elected" officials.>> And you make more of an ass out of yourself everytime you open your friggin mouth. What did I write in that post that you replied to obviously without anything that could perceptively be called a "thought"? The Nuremburg trials determined that a soldier has the right to refuse orders if it could be expected to conflict with what could be determined to be reasonable conscience. To put that into easy terms for your little mind to comprehend: a soldier can be reasonably justified in refusing orders if those orders would mean committing atrocities. So what did my post REALLY say? Let me make this easier for you to understand: NO, US soldiers are not justified in refusing orders from the President of the United States simply because they do not agree with the politics. YES, a soldier may justifiably refuse orders if those orders mean commiting atrocities **as was ordered to SS units in WWII and Serbian troops in Yugoslavia today**. Now go stick your head back in the toilet Fruit Boy.

To: Broken_Clock who wrote (3948)	4/16/1999 3:15:00 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 17770

Jeez, Papaya, do you think that the military should not be under civilian control? Maybe we should let them make our foreign policy...Under all but the most exceptional circumstances, the chain of command should be honored.

To: Broken_Clock who wrote (3948)	4/16/1999 8:57:00 AM
From: nihil	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 17770

Hitler required a personal oath from all the military and SS. The assassins broke their oaths. Good on them. They were heroic. A coerced oath to a monster cannot be binding on a man of honor. American officers take a voluntary oath to preserve and defend the Constitution of the United States. This Constitution establishes the President as the Commander in Chief, at the head of the chain of command. Every military member is bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice which makes violation of a lawful order a crime. It is the obligation of each member of the military to determine if an order given him is lawful. He is obligated to disobey unlawful orders that involve him in other offenses. Lt. Calley was convicted for obeying an order which was held to be unlawful (and that everyone should have known was unlawful). A warrant officer in the army piloting a helicopter reported and stopped the slaughter of the villagers. Every war is filled with criminal activities by either side. The United States has a record almost as bad as any other country. Watch the movie "The Seige of Firebase Gloria". Read "Rumors of War" or "Marine Sniper". The United States also has a long history of prosecuting war crimes, not only by its enemies but also by its own soldiers. Union forces court-martialed and shot the commandant of Andersonville. Civil War guerillas were hanged. The Geneva Convention on treatment of prisoners of war is violated almost every day of every war, but war would be more horrible that it is without it. Who would be a soldier except to defend his family and friends? Who would not be a soldier to defend his family and friends?