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Pastimes : Kosovo -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: nuke44 who wrote (4178)4/16/1999 11:17:00 PM
From: Broken_Clock  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 17770
 
nuke,
There was a time when I thought Barry G. was without a doubt the best man for the CIC job. People thought I was nuts(and I lived in Texas!). But he had a plan. If you're going in, go to hanoi first. You know the story, LBJ and a trillion $$$ later and we've got no victory, US bomblets still killing 20,000 "collaterals/year" in Cambodia, lost(?) military in SEAsia never to be found(Bo Gritz is my hero on that one, among others), 10s of thousands of wasted Vets who were once good men(my brother is one), and now a new clown "making a legacy". Stop this foolishness.

<I say let it rip.> In the long run, doesn't it matter to you who's foot you might be peeing on? -g- and -ng-



To: nuke44 who wrote (4178)4/16/1999 11:18:00 PM
From: George Papadopoulos  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 17770
 
Repeat of earlier post...Barry, nuke duck!

I cannot think of better informed and more credible source of information
regarding the issues from former Yugoslavia than Satish Nambiar, the first Force
Commander and Head of Mission of the United Nations Forces deployed in the former
Yugoslavia 03 Mar 92 to 02 Mar 93. Mr. Nambiar is a former deputy chief of staff,
Indian Army. Currently, he is a director of the United Services Institution of
India.

Concise, right to the point, excellent article of the UN highest ranking officer,
which will enable you to understand what is going on over there.
_____________________

THE FATAL FLAWS UNDERLYING NATO'S INTERVENTION IN YUGOSLAVIA
By Lt Gen Satish Nambiar (Retd.)

My year long experience as the Force Commander and Head of Mission of the United
Nations Forces deployed in the former Yugoslavia has given me an understanding of
the fatal flaws of US/NATO policies in the troubled region.

It was obvious to most people following events in the Balkans since the beginning
of the decade, and particularly after the fighting that resulted in the emergence
of Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina and the former Yugoslav Republic of
Macedonia, that Kosovo was a 'powder keg' waiting to explode. The West appears to
have learnt all the wrong lessons from the previous wars and applied it to Kosovo.

(1) Portraying the Serbs as evil and everybody else as good was not only
counterproductive but also dishonest. According to my experience all sides were
guilty but only the Serbs would admit that they were no angels while the others
would insist that they were. With 28, 000 forces under me and with constant
contacts with UNHCR and the International Red Cross officials, we did not witness
any genocide beyond killings and massacres on all sides that are typical of such
conflict conditions. I believe none of my successors and their forces saw anything
on the scale claimed by the media.

(2) It was obvious to me that if Slovenians, Croatians and Bosniaks had the right
to secede from Yugoslavia, then the Serbs of Croatia and Bosnia had an equal right
to secede. The experience of partitions in Ireland and India has not be pleasant
but in the Yugoslavia case, the state had already been taken apart anyway. It made
little sense to me that if multiethnic Yugoslavia was not tenable that multiethnic
Bosnia could be made tenable. The former internal boundaries of Yugoslavia which
had no validity under international law should have been redrawn when it was taken
apart by the West, just as it was in the case of Ireland in 1921 and Punjab and
Bengal in India in 1947. Failure to acknowledge this has led to the problem of
Kosovo as an integral part of Serbia.

(3) It is ironic that the Dayton Agreement on Bosnia was not fundamentally
different from the Lisbon Plan drawn up by Portuguese Foreign Minister Cuteliero
and British representative Lord Carrington to which all three sides had agreed
before any killings had taken place, or even the Vance-Owen Plan which Karadzic
was willing to sign. One of the main problems was that there was an unwillingness
on the part of the American administration to concede that Serbs had legitimate
grievances and rights. I recall State Department official George Kenny turning up
like all other American officials, spewing condemnations of the Serbs for
aggression and genocide. I offered to give him an escort and to go see for himself
that none of what he proclaimed was true. He accepted my offer and thereafter he
made a radical turnaround.. Other Americans continued to see and hear what they
wanted to see and hear from one side, while ignoring the other side. Such
behaviour does not produce peace but more conflict.

(4) I felt that Yugoslavia was a media-generated tragedy. The Western media sees
international crises in black and white, sensationalizing incidents for public consumption. From what I can see now, all Serbs have seen driven out of Croatia
and the Muslim-Croat Federation, I believe almost 850,000 of them. And yet the
focus is on 500,000 Albanians (at last count) who have been driven out of Kosovo.
Western policies have led to an ethnically pure Greater Croatia, and an ethnically
pure Muslim state let in Bosnia. Therefore, why not an ethnically pure Serbia?
Failure to address these double standards has led to the current one.

As I watched the ugly tragedy unfold in the case of Kosovo while visiting the US
in early to mid March 1999, I could see the same pattern emerging. In my
experience with similar situations in India in such places as Kashmir, Punjab,
Assam, Nagaland, and elsewhere, it is the essential strategy of those ethnic
groups who wish to secede to provoke the state authorities. Killings of policemen
is usually a standard operating procedure by terrorists since that usually invites
overwhelming state retaliation, just as I am sure it does in the United States. I
do not believe the Belgrade government had prior intention of driving out all
Albanians from Kosovo. It may have decided to implement Washington's own "Krajina
Plan" only if NATO bombed, or these expulsions could be spontaneous acts of
revenge and retaliation by Serb forces in the field because of the bombing. The
OSCE Monitors were not doing too badly, and the Yugoslav Government had, after
all, indicated its willings to abide by nearly all the provisions of the
Rambouillet "Agreement" on aspects like cease-fire, greater autonomy to the
Albanians, and so on. But they insisted that the status of Kosovo as part of
Serbia was not negotiable, and they would not agree to stationing NATO forces on
the soil of Yugoslavia. This is precisely what India would have done under the
same circumstances. It was the West that proceeded to escalate the situation into
the current senseless bombing campaign that smacks more of hurt egos, and revenge
and retaliation. NATO's massive bombing intended to terrorize Serbia into
submission appears no different from the morality of actions of Serb forces in
Kosovo.

Ultimatums were issued to Yugoslavia that unless the terms of an agreement drawn
up at Rambouillet were signed, NATO would undertake bombing. Ultimatums do not
constitute diplomacy. They are acts of war. The Albanians of Kosovo who want
independence, were coaxed and cajoled into putting their signatures to a document
motivated with the hope of NATO bombing of Serbs and independence later. With this
signature, NATO assumed all the legal and moral authority to undertake military
operations against a country that had, at worst, been harsh on its own people. On
24th March 1999, NATO launched attacks with cruise missiles and bombs, on
Yugoslavia, a sovereign state, a founding member of the United Nations and the Non
Aligned Movement; and against a people who were at the forefront of the fight
against Nazi Germany and other fascist forces during World War Two. I consider
these current actions unbecoming of great powers.

It is appropriate to touch on the humanitarian dimension for it is the innocent
who are being subjected to displacement, pain and misery. Unfortunately, this is
the tragic and inevitable outcome of all such situations of civil war,
insurgencies, rebel movements, and terrorist activity. History is replete with
examples of such suffering; whether it be the American Civil War, Northern
Ireland, the Basque movement in Spain, Chechnya, Angola, Cambodia, and so many
other cases; the indiscriminate bombing of civilian centres during World War Two;
Hiroshima and Nagasaki; Vietnam. The list is endless.I feel that this tragedy
could have been prevented if NATO's ego and credibility had not been given the
highest priority instead of the genuine grievances of Serbs in addition to
Albanians.

Notwithstanding all that one hears and sees on CNN and BBC, and other Western
agencies, and in the daily briefings of the NATO authorities, the blame for the
humanitarian crisis that has arisen cannot be placed at the door of the Yugoslav
authorities alone. The responsibility rests mainly at NATO's doors. In fact, if I
am to go by my own experience as the First Force Commander and Head of Mission of
the United Nations forces in the former Yugoslavia, from March 1992 to March 1993,
handling operations in Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, and Macedonia, I would say
that reports put out in the electronic media are largely responsible for provoking
this tragedy.

Where does all this leave the international community which for the record does
not comprise of the US, the West and its newfound Muslim allies ? The portents for
the future, at least in the short term, are bleak indeed. The United Nations has
been made totally redundant, ineffective, and impotent. The Western world, led by
the USA, will lay down the moral values that the rest of the world must adhere to;
it does not matter that they themselves do not adhere to the same values when it
does not suit them. National sovereignty and territorial integrity have no
sanctity. And finally, secessionist movements, which often start with terrorist
activity, will get greater encouragement. One can only hope that good sense will
prevail, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Lt General Satish Nambiar
Director, USI, New Delhi
6 April 1999



To: nuke44 who wrote (4178)4/17/1999 9:39:00 AM
From: goldsnow  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 17770
 
Indonesia Troops Kill
Several In E.Timor
07:25 a.m. Apr 17, 1999 Eastern

By Supriyatin

DILI, East Timor (Reuters) -
Several people died Saturday
when Indonesian troops opened
fire on a house sheltering dozens of
East Timorese, a prominent
pro-independence activist said.

Earlier, a pro-Jakarta militia leader
told a rally that the territory should
be cleansed of pro-independence
groups. Militiamen went on a
rampage after the rally, burning
cars and houses, witnesses said.

Leading pro-independence activist
Manuel Carascalao told Reuters
his son and several others were
killed when his house was
attacked.

''My son was killed in the attack
on my house and I believe that
there are several others who were
killed in the incident,'' he told
Reuters by telephone.

''I don't know where my son is,
but all I know is that he has been
killed by the (Indonesian) troops,''
Carascalao added.

He said at the time of the attack
there were around 100 people in
the house, most of whom had fled
there in search of safety.

Police and military in the area were
not immediately available for
comment.

Saturday's unrest started with a
rally of some 1,000 pro-Jakarta
militiamen brandishing rifles and
machetes in front of the
Jakarta-appointed governor's
house in Dili.

Militia commander Eurico
Gutteress told his followers to
clear the territory of groups who
were in favor of independence,
using violence if necessary.

''Starting today I command all
pro-integration militias to conduct
a cleansing of all those who
betrayed integration,'' he told his
followers.

''Capture and kill if you need,'' he
said.

Many of the militiamen wore
headbands in red and white -- the
colors of the Indonesian flag.

''We must fight to keep the
integration of East Timor into the
Republic of Indonesia,'' militia
commander Joao Da Silva Tavares
told the crowd outside the
governor's waterfront office.

The militiamen also set ablaze
several shops in the Becora region,
on the outskirts of Dili, church
officials said.

Indonesian loyalists have stepped
up their campaign of attacks and
public rallies as Indonesia and
Portugal discuss an East Timor
ballot on whether the former
Portuguese colony wants
independence or more autonomy
within Indonesia.

Guerrillas fighting for independence
have also stepped up their
activities, with several attacks in
the past few days after months of
silence.

At least three people died Friday
in fighting between guerrillas and
Indonesian troops in Manatuto
district, 175 km (110 miles), west
of Dili.

Detained guerrilla leader Xanana
Gusmao has called on his
supporters to take up arms in the
face of increasing action by the
pro-Jakarta militias.

But his call has also sparked fears
that United Nations-brokered
efforts by Jakarta and Lisbon to
thrash out a peaceful solution to
the East Timor problem could fail.

Foreign ministers from the two
countries are due to meet in New
York next week. They are
expected to strike an agreement on
holding a vote to give East
Timorese a choice between
autonomy or independence.

Indonesia invaded East Timor in
1975 and annexed it the following
year in a move not recognized by
the United Nations.

More than 200,000 East Timorese
-- about a quarter of the
population -- have died of fighting,
starvation and disease.

Copyright 1999 Reuters Limited.