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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: E who wrote (35455)	4/20/1999 12:04:00 AM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Well, I will agree that this statement is fairly innocuous: <<Of course. The force element is what makes it rape. My point wasn't that rape wasn't forced sex, just that it was sex, for the man.>> I still disagree that the urge comes from a man's sexuality, however. If that were the case, he could just have sex with a willing partner, masturbate, love a blow-up doll, or do something else to relieve his desire. The fact that he violates, and may even kill, a woman to satisfy his urges make the lust predominantly predatory, not sexual at all. I would agree that everyone has expressed their opinions, and probably there is not too much more that could be said.

To: E who wrote (35455)	4/20/1999 12:36:00 AM
From: Edwarda	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

E, before I even look at the rest of the posts, you sound deeply upset. Do not be. I have printed out this post and shall go back--when I do not have work pressure--and read carefully and think on the subject. And I shall post accordingly. What I shared with the thread, at some personal cost, was my own experience of the rapist's getting the sexual charge from something other than the sexual act itself, not from the penetration and sensual experience of a cock in a cunt and orgasm. What I found so frightening was more than the assault itself; the situation made it clear that he was getting off on frightening me and hurting me. This is not PC blather. This is personal experience. It is what made the rape so terrifying. A human appeal simply fed his need to dominate and terrorize; it excited him. But what you have been posting has not fallen on deaf ears. I am listening and have not been able to give proper attention. Apologies. The subject of rape is a lightning rod, totally aside from the PC attempts to wish it away or use it. It is a subject of fantasy. It is a very real part of many women's--and some men's--histories. Maybe we need to take some time to think. Give us this time. And don't feel that you have wasted anyone's time. You asked the kind of provocative question that elicits a complex of responses as one thinks about all aspects. This is the true nature of "feelies": Provocative questions that evoke complex responses. Do not despair for you have seen only the first level of response!

To: E who wrote (35455)	4/20/1999 12:50:00 AM
From: Jacques Chitte	Respond to of 108807

>This has been a discouraging and depressing experience for me, and if it has felt that way to anyone else,< do not apologize. It is to your credit that you exposed this much, worked this hard, to clarify something important to probably all of us. Instead, take comfort - you acted bravely and with integrity. Mho

To: E who wrote (35455)	4/20/1999 1:39:00 AM
From: jbe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

This has been a discouraging and depressing experience for me, and if it has felt that way to anyone else, I'd like to apologize for my part in that. Count me among those who say you have nothing to apologize for. Your effort to get others to look at the question you raised without blinking, and to analyze it logically, can only be commended. As you know, you may also count me among those who support your point of view. In fact, I regret that we never explored what you called "other scenarios" of rape (ones not involving isolated psychopaths). For example, I would like an answer to my question as to whether the thread considers the slave owner who has sex with a slave to be a rapist. Remember, the slave owner feels no hostility towards the slave; in fact, he likes her -- or him. Yet it is not "consensual sex", as we understand the term. Joan