SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: greenspirit who wrote (43786)4/24/1999 11:56:00 AM
From: Les H  Respond to of 67261
 
Killers' parents owe community an explanation
By Chuck Green
Denver Post Columnist

April 23 - Where were their parents?

That is a question, spoken or not, that is on the mind of anyone who
wonders how the terror that stalked the hallways of Columbine High School
could have been incubated.

It must have come, in its infancy or in its adolescence, from the home.

Yet we aren't sure.

The parents of the killers, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, can help us
understand.

But so far they have been wrapped in a silent, self-imposed cloak of
seclusion, afraid to provide us with any insight.

That, more than anything in this confusing and baffling mystery, is
understandable.

If I were them, I'd have sought out a protective womb, too. I would not
want to face a battery of network microphones, or an antagonistic
prosecuting attorney, or an angry parent of a child who had been shot in the
face.

I would hide.

But I would be asking myself - repeatedly asking myself - one question:

Can something good emerge from something so evil?

The answer, clearly, is: Yes.

And you can help provide that answer.

For the moment, your silence, your grief, your embarrassment, your shame,
your sorrow, all can be understood. We can identify with all of that.

And we will give you time to console yourselves, to absorb the anguish of
friends, to receive the comfort of those who are closest to you.

But then, please talk to us.

Only you can tell us what went wrong on Tuesday - not totally, but partially.

And please - please - don't be defensive. Just give it to us straight.

Did you know what Eric and Dylan were feeling? Did you know their
frustrations? Did you know the extent of their hate? Did you know of their
obsession with guns and explosives? Did you know of their obsession with
German militarism? Had you ever reviewed their Internet activities? Did you
know of their addiction to violent video games and satanic music?

Were you in touch?

It is not shameful if you were not. That only puts you in the crowd of many
parents of teenagers who have veered, inexplicably, from the rational world.

But it doesn't excuse you from an obligation to help us understand what
happened.

These were your kids. You may have done everything possible to help
them, to stay close to them, to respect their privacy, to give them some
space.

You may have practiced so-called "tough love,'' and you may have been too
lenient. You may have turned away, not wanting to believe what you were
seeing, or you may have just thought they were going through a harmless
phase of acting out.

But we need to know.

Please - talk with us. For the others who died, and for those who might die
in the future, you owe us that much.

>>>Also posted on the Littleton thread.



To: greenspirit who wrote (43786)4/24/1999 12:35:00 PM
From: Daniel Schuh  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 67261
 
Good one, Michael. "Liberalism" forces both parents to work. A novel method of blaming it on Clinton.

No, the cause of this had nothing to do with the availability of guns. The availability of guns has nothing to do with the other 30-40k deaths a year in the U.S. due to firearms, either. Those are all due to "liberals" too, one way or the other. The fact that just about every other first world country has gun deaths in 2 or 3 figures instead of 5 is because all those other countries are less "liberal" than the U.S.



To: greenspirit who wrote (43786)4/24/1999 2:53:00 PM
From: iandiareii  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 67261
 
Mike --

I like appreciate long posts, so thanks, and maybe we can take this one step at a time, and take it seriously. I've been back online lately a little more often lately -- more often than I would prefer frankly -- so I hope I can keep up with this is a reasonably timely manner. However, please be patient if my responses lag a bit. For now, I propose to address this bit by bit, and I may have as many questions as comments. This post won't make it all the way through your second sentence, and contains no reference to Littleton or guns.

I've added two gravy links at the bottom for anyone willing to read (or even scroll) through my chunks. The first is a priceless picture of Newt and Bill (c. 1995?) promising campaign finance reform within a year, a handshake for the benefit of the assembled photographers. The second link contains an interactive graphic (courtesy Salon and its conservative columnist David Horovitz) to which only an inside-the-beltway Washingtonian could perhaps object, not any real American, so who cares?

Ian, the horrible shooting incident's root cause was not the availability of guns. But the result of 35 years of liberalism which forces both parents to work, (because of super high tax rates) and removed all sense of right and wrong from our schools.

By "liberalism," I will take you mean the term in the contemporary sense of the welfare state, especially as it applies to your "root cause" tax rates that force both parents into the workplace. (I realize you go on to apply liberalism as a social or cultural stance as well). I think you are correct that the last 35 years have seen pretty dramatic changes in U.S. tax policy, and my perception is that taxes a proportion of GDP has indeed risen over this time period. Why don't you see what you can dig up on tax history, and I'll do the same.

Perhaps we could compare not only government spending as a portion of GDP (or, historically, GNP restated) over those thirty five years, but how and to whom the burden was apportioned over time. My sense is that the effective tax rates on the wealthiest Americans has fallen dramatically over these years, and that corporate taxes now also contribute proportionally less of their top line than they did then. If so, I think it might help to point out that, traditionally at least, lower tax rates on the wealthy and on business has been a central tenet of Republican economic policy. Why would the supposed "tax-and-spend" liberals want to lop off the first half of that sobriquet as it applies to the natural constituencies of the supposed Republicans?

A possible suggestion: you want a family able to support itself through a single wage earner? Work for better labor laws and stronger unions. Unfettered capital looks after its own interests and, one must admit, it does that with admirable ability. Unfortunately, capitalism disproportionately rewards those at the top, the capitalists. Capital marshals all its resources -- given rights, en masse, through the legal fiction of incorporation -- to shape our politics to its own ends.

There may indeed be some overlap between what's good for General Motors and what is good for America, but, I think its a far from perfect perfect match. The problem is that, by and large, General Motors couldn't care less if its business practices are good for anyone but General Motors, and neither could most of its stockholders. Please note that I say this without prejudice, since it's GM's sole job to make money however it best sees fit.

The punt goes that politicians make policy, and corps. make money, and they will comply will all applicable laws as good corporate citizens. Well, politicians may make laws, but to an alarming degree, corporate money makes politicians. Good corporate citizenship gets watered down before it can even be invoked. On the other side, provisionally, the unions would be more than happy to cease a campaign dollar battle that they will never win, but I think Mr. Hastert will see to it that even a partial, imperfect cease-fire never gets discussed. It would be interesting to see what kind of politics we would have without money working its influence. Personally, I think it would be good for America, although I bet General Motors would object.

Currently, workers are a means to an end, capital reproduction, and to the extent they are rewarded at all it comes as a grudging necessity, resisted as much as possible. Again, capitalism is free of value judgments, so this is the natural state of things. But, using your equation, put more money in the hand of a single worker, and the partner will no longer be forced out of the home; and since, ceteris paribus, union jobs pay better wages and offer better benefits than their non-union counterparts; you should be humming "Solidarity Forever" about now.

The right usually preaches thriftiness and self-sacrifice as the answer here (personal if not corporate, whatever the tax rate) but if you think taxes are to blame, I say let's look.

Some of this is boilerplate, I understand, so reasoned probing is in order. I wouldn't mind if this conversation touched on questions of "shareholder democracy" or corporate media or the non-existence of left-politics in America or the shortcomings of American unionism or transnational capital or the rate of real wage growth or contract ideology etc., but all things in good time. I'll try to get to more of your original post, and any response to this, as time permits, and your stomach stands.

Finally, my favorite quote from the NYT, several years back, to which I have neither link nor hard copy citation, but I'm happy to offer it here, imperfectly remembered, since it fits so well. I think it was early '95, and Clinton was all about the country touting the economy's rate of new job creation. The reporter was talking to a middle aged man who had recently been "downsized" by AT&T. The reporter said, quoting Clinton, you know the economy has produced 500,000 new jobs in the last 12 months. "Yes I know," he replied, "my wife and I have four of them."

ian

salonmagazine.com
salonmagazine.com