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Pastimes : WHY?? Littleton Colorado -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: WTSherman who wrote (215)	4/24/1999 1:43:00 PM
From: Abner Hosmer	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 368

Haven't you seen the pictures of European and Russian Jews being dragged out of their homes and murdered in the streets in "nice" European cities. The primary reason for maintaining the right to bear arms is the one that detractors never mention: the final protection of our freedom from the tyranny of government. Jews in Germany in the 1920's never even considered the idea that such a thing could happen in such "civilized" countries. Tens of millions have been murdered in this century by their own governments, and the killing continues. Once the government has disarmed the citizenry, the game is over, they are helpless. This has been shown time and again, from East Timor to Cambodia, to Stalinist Russia, to China, to Kosovo, to Warsaw, to Auschwitz and on. If detractors of the right said that we are paranoid on this issue, and we said that they are fools, history would be unequivocably on our side. We had another incident here in Denver several years ago that is little talked about. Four or five armed govt agents got shit-faced in a bar downtown. When the owner refused to serve them more liquor, one of them drew his gun, stuck it in the man's face, and told him he was a govt agent, could blow him away and get away with it, and there wasn't a damn thing he could do about it. It took about 3 years of effort to force the authorities to even acknowledge that a crime had been committed. I think the agent was ultimately charged with some cheap misdemeanor. I haven't heard how it turned out. And how about that little "roundup" or whatever the hell they called it, where all of those govt agents had their little barbeque with signs posted "no niggers allowed". Doesn't exactly give one a warm, fuzzy, does it? Every time I see a Jew or someone of African heritage coming out for gun control, I can't help thinking, "You must be out of your mind".

To: WTSherman who wrote (215)	4/24/1999 9:25:00 PM
From: Robert B.	Respond to of 368

<<Since you're into facts, here's some more... 75% of all gun deaths last year were committed by people who had no criminal records.>> Of my close friends and family, five individuals own or have access to guns. None have criminal records that I know of, but... #1: Alcoholic, drinks and drives often, often gets into "barfights" (or so he says), uses a picture of my brother-in-law for target practice. #2: Drug abuser, has tried to commit suicide before, has twice been admitted to mental hospitals within the past 5 years. #3: Alcoholic, has mentioned suicide to me before. #4: Drug Abuser, recently spent two days in the hospital because he was so upset and angry that he couldn't calm down. #5: Alcoholic, abusive father, leaves guns out or in unlocked drawers when his grandchildren come over Yes, alcoholism runs in my family if you were wondering. The five people I know that own guns are not fit to have them in my opinion. If any of you knew them personally I'm sure that you would agree. Obviously, there are some very responsible gun owners out there. But, I'm sure why you can understand why I personally lean towards gun control. I just wonder how many out of the 109 million handguns in the US are owned by responsible people.

To: WTSherman who wrote (215)	4/25/1999 1:14:00 AM
From: Gordon A. Langston	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 368

< A few more facts to consider, 2/3 of all gun deaths last year were not part of any other criminal activity(such as rape, robbery, etc.). Since you're into facts, here's some more... 75% of all gun deaths last year were committed by people who had no criminal records.> You should at least define gun deaths, as they do include suicide and accidents. Also of those with no criminal record, how many were the legal owner of the weapon involved. But these are just statistics. We live in a country that gives us the right (and responsibilities that go with it) to own a gun, for self-protection. So I will readily admit we are a gun-culture as Britain is not. There is a price to every freedom. There is a price to free speech. There is even a price to pay for owning and using automobiles and they are dangerous (more deaths than guns). I am not making an argument here except to say unless you revoke the 2nd Amendment the gun-culture is here for the forseeable future. I see no comments from anyone from Switzerland. All are citizen soldiers and regularly train and possess arms, military arms. Our country has a unique history and I would like to think it is in some part due to our Constitution and Bill of Rights. It is not a perfect place to live, but we have attempted what others have not and been successful at times and failed at others. That is part of our nature also. Trading off freedoms and rights for the promise of a safer world!! Tell me where this has been successful. Guns are a peripheral issue in Littleton imo, and should be addressed in the proper context. Legally owned, Etc.