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To: Souze who wrote (5235)	5/2/1999 3:12:00 PM
From: Graystone	Respond to of 32873

Authority or The roots of the tree. Can we use force to address hatred. Yes Can we force to correct hatred. No We have no authority to use force, except the authority granted by force itself. The killers in Littleton Colorado demonstrated this principle of the application of force in a tragic fashion. No force that we apply today can correct the damage. The shooting in Taber was a replay of the message in Littleton. You cannot legislate right thinking, the kids taunting the killers were expressing their views, not my views or your views. Where do the roots of the tree go, I really don't know. I suspect that in the end it is an internal question that each of us must face every time we have to examine an issue. A community is not homogenous, I may not know my neighbors neighbors neighbors, but they are a part of my community. You suggest that not throwing Emile off of SI is "toleration of hatred", I disagree. Failing to point out that Emile is full of hate would be toleration of hatred.

To: Souze who wrote (5235)	5/2/1999 8:16:00 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 32873

Would the massacre at Littleton , CO have happened if the expressions of the anti-semitic, anti-black, anti-God, anti-whomever/whatever been stopped in the first place? Yes. You don't stop thinking by trying to control expressions of it. Rather, you drive it underground and reinforce its paranoia. You control it by reaching out to the desperately unhappy people who feel the need to alienate themselves from society and including them as persons of value in society. This is what the church did for centuries. It loss is one of the greatest tragedies of the denigration of faith by so many of the "intellectuals" in society. I abhor what happened at Littleton. But we don't gain anything by saying "terrible, horrible, what awful people" and refusing to look honestly at the roots of the violence. There was a fascinating discussion on NPR (hardly a bastion of hatred!) giving the thoughts of other student outcasts around the country. They tell of persistent abuse by the "in" crowd, perpetual verbal and physical abuse, rejection, devaluation. Meanwhile the administrations of schools celebrate the jocks, the cheerleaders, but not the nerds, the off-beat creative students (and don't underestimate the Littleton killers -- it took some smarts to put that all together. Warped smarts, but smarts.) When's the last time you heard of a school putting on a full pep rally for the chess team or debate team before a big match? I went to our school's awards ceremony for honor roll students, where my senior daughters got Principal's awards for their cumulative 4.0 HS GPAs. It was held away from the school. In the evening, not in school hours. Students not getting awards were neither required nor expected to attend. It was for the parents and the students receiving awards. No cheerleaders. No cheering throngs. No letter jackets. A quiet evening with polite applause, but no recognition by the other students, and no attempt even by the administration to hold these students up as role models to the broader school community. And at that, our school probably tries harder than most. My son, now in college, had to work hard to maintain a 3.0 GPS. But he was a football starter for three years and a winning pitcher on the baseball team. I won't tell you how many more awards he got, how often he was paraded in front of the whole student body at mandatory-attendance pep rallies, how the homecoming parade was held at the half-time of the homecoming day football game, with not a single mention of academic achievement. My daughters, fortunately, are healthy and well balanced. But some of the other bright students are less so. They see the adulation poured out on the jocks and the ignorance given to their skills and abilities. What lesson do you expect the to take from all that about self worth, esteem, the qualities that society values, the in-crowd and the outcasts? There's no way we can excuse the Littleton killers. But we can -- and must understand them and the societal forces that cause some bright students to turn to destruction on a massive scale to say to society "hey, I exist too, I deserve attention, too." Simplistic? Of course. But there is part of the truth there, too. Let me rephrase your question: Would the massacre at Littleton , CO have happened if the students who felt the need to express anti-semitic, anti-black, anti-God, anti-whomever/whatever statements had not suffered from societal abuse, rejection, denigration by other students, school administrations, and society for years?