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Technology Stocks : Ascend Communications (ASND) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Mighty Mizzou who wrote (60972)5/6/1999 11:24:00 AM
From: Techplayer  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 61433
 
MM,

I'm not sure that they totally suck just yet, but they certainly can't compete with the products that ASND brings to the table.

When do you think that we will see LU in the high 70's? This year? I'm building a new house and have that price in mind for a 20% exit point. (average price $15).

Good luck with your LU/ASND.

Brian



To: Mighty Mizzou who wrote (60972)5/6/1999 5:00:00 PM
From: Techwatch  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 61433
 
From briand over on the cisco thread

Analysis: Cisco's WAN strategy is anyone's guess
Death, delay of switches and only one new platform to show from StrataCom buy.

By JIM DUFFY
Network World Fusion, 05/06/99

Now that Cisco has killed off its ATM switch for the core of enterprise and service provider WANs, the company's plans for this segment of the market are unclear.

Cisco is banking on increased sales of WAN switching gear to enterprises and service providers to drive the company's growth. But this week's news that Cisco discontinued development of its core WAN switch and delayed another enterprise switch for a year indicates that success for Cisco in this market may be more challenging than expected.

Analysts, competitors and other Cisco watchers say the company's long-term WAN switching strategy for enterprises and service providers is still unfocused three years after Cisco's $4 billion acquisition of StrataCom. They say Cisco has shipped only one new WAN switching platform since it acquired StrataCom - the MGX 8850 IP/ATM edge switch, which is shipping in limited volume.

Other platforms are merely upgrades of existing StrataCom architectures. And Cisco has steadily lost market share in frame relay WAN switching since acquiring StrataCom, according to Vertical Systems Group of Dedham, Mass.

"In frame switching they've decreased because (Ascend's Cascade switches) got developed and rolled out," says Rosemary Cochran, principal at Vertical Systems Group.

Cisco rebuffed repeated requests from Network World this week for interviews with company executives on the state of its WAN switching business. Cisco did, however, respond to queries from other publications regarding this topic as those publications
contacted Network World for commentary.

Among the questions swirling around Cisco's WAN switching business are these:
What is Cisco's strategic core WAN switch?
Is Cisco truly "agnostic" when it comes to IP and ATM technologies for the WAN?
Does Cisco still have - or has it ever had - a strategy for WAN switching at the edge and core of enterprise and service provider networks?

The death of the 20G bit/sec TGX 8750 seems to leave Cisco without a core IP/ATM WAN switch to challenge offerings from Ascend, Newbridge and Nortel and with a gaping hole in its "end-to-end" voice/data system story. From a short-term revenue standpoint, that may not be disastrous because Cisco has said in the past that the revenue potential at the edge of the network is 15 times that of the core.

But longer term, a lack of presence in the core may mean a lack of customer lock-in and the additional hardware and software revenue that comes with it.

In any event, the TGX 8750 was supposed to serve as proof of the synergy between Cisco and StrataCom, that IP from Cisco could be "married" to ATM from StrataCom to provide the best of both packet- and cell switching for enterprises and service providers.

Cisco now says its MGX 8850 edge switch, which scales from 1.2G bit/sec to 45G bit/sec, can slide into the core. Indeed, Cisco customer Sprint always intended to use the MGX 8850 as its core switch for the ION network, a Sprint spokesman says.

But it is still unclear whether the MGX 8850 is a tactical or strategic platform for the core.

Cisco competitors say it is a limited tactical solution. At 1.2G bit/sec, the MGX 8850 currently lacks the horsepower for edge duty, let alone core. They say by the time the MGX 8850 scales to 45G bit/sec - which they believe to be in mid-2000 - it will have
already been surpassed by other products.

Cisco's strategic IP/ATM switch for the WAN core, competitors say, is a 120G to 190G bit/sec platform under development, code-named Jupiter. They expect Jupiter to ship in late 2000.

There's also always the possibility that Cisco could acquire its way back into the WAN core by snapping up one of the gigabit/terabit router start-ups. Juniper and Avici may be hands-off, given that several Cisco rivals have equity stakes in Juniper, and Nortel owns
20% of Avici.

But acquiring a router start-up at this stage would be a humbling experience for Cisco, observers say. It would signal that the $4 billion StrataCom acquisition did not pan out; and that Cisco, the worldwide leader in routers, did not have the wherewithal to develop a high-speed switching router for the WAN core - that "marries" IP and ATM - in a timely fashion.

Whether Cisco acquires or Jupiter emerges, analysts say Cisco to date has been sending mixed messages to the market regarding its strategic technology for the WAN core, IP packets or ATM cells. Though Cisco claims to be "technology agnostic" - having no preference of one over another as long as they offer whatever the customer wants - the company has actually been downplaying the significance of ATM in next-generation data optimized networks.

"Without a core switch, Cisco is going to continue to try and marginalize ATM, except at the edge," says Craig Johnson of The PITA Group in Portland, Ore. "It's to their advantage to do such a thing and to say that routers are where the intelligence is."

"Cisco is still schizophrenic with regard to ATM and routing," says Tom Nolle, president of consultancy CIMI Corp. in Voorhees, N.J. "The strategies that they're talking about are not consistent with their product positions. The service providers are suspicious of people who they think are maybe talking out of both sides of their mouth."

Indeed, Cisco is stating three different reasons for killing the TGX 8750, one of which is slow demand for OC-48 ATM in the WAN core, an assertion Cisco competitors and analysts say is ridiculous.

"I don't agree with that," says Vertical's Cochran. "Certainly demand hasn't decreased from a year ago; if anything, it's increased."

Cisco itself has underscored the OC-48 packet-over-SONET features of its 12000 GSR router as key to the product's selection by service providers Frontier, France Telecom, IXC, Swisscom and Enron.

Another reason Cisco gave for discontinuing the TGX 8750 is that it could not build a single product at price points that both enterprises and service providers expect. As a result, Cisco "bifurcated" TGX 8750 resources among the MGX 8850 and the Catalyst 8540 enterprise campus switch router.

And Cisco's third reason, according to sources, is that the 20G bit/sec TGX 8750 no longer makes sense for the core when the MGX 8850 scales to 45G bit/sec.

Observers say Cisco's three different explanations for the demise of its core IP/ATM switch indicates that the company's WAN switching strategy is just as scattershot-even three years after the StrataCom acquisition. This, along with the release of only one new WAN platform in three years and the apparent loss of frame relay market share, signals that Cisco has so far benefited little from StrataCom, and vice versa.

The only apparent gain from StrataCom is that Cisco bought its way into the AT&T and Worldcom public frame relay networks.

"They've renamed a bunch of products but I haven't seen much more than that," says Bob Bellman, president of BrookTrail Research in Natick, Mass. "Nothing exciting,anyway."

So with a key piece of its WAN switching strategy missing, and another significantly delayed, Cisco's WAN switching vision is a blur. The company must regain its sight quickly because competitors like Ascend/Lucent, Newbridge and Nortel can make significant gains in the time it could take Cisco to develop - or acquire - and ship competitive products.

"The real question is, where is Cisco in core ATM," says PITA Group's Johnson.

Says a Cisco competitor, "Remember the theme 'Married: IP+ATM'? Looks like divorce papers have been issued by the lawyers of Cisco's routing group and StrataCom's switching group!"