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Pastimes : Kosovo -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Paul Merriwether who wrote (7041)	5/6/1999 1:36:00 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 17770

<<who happens to hate the house of Saud>> OK, so what he says about Arabia must be objective. Have you ever heard an exwife or exhusband talk about the character and behavior of their exspouse. I told you, I would not be surprised by anything in this world. I don't doubt there are atrocities being committed in every corner of the world, including my back yard. Regardless of what you claim, your perspective comes accross as very anti-muslim and "extremely" biased. I am absolutely positive that I could find examples of any example you could find in Saudi, right here in the US. The fact is that crime, and abuse in all forms are much more recognised, tolerated, and excepted here than they are in Saudi. One difference is that where as the citizens here are much more empowered to freely act on and abuse others than they are there. The trade off of course is that the officials there are, in my estimate, overly empowered to act on and abuse others. It aint a perfect planet pal no matter where you sit. <<brees, I read this in a book,...>> <<blah, blah, blah...throughout the middle ages.>> Let me recommend some literature. If you want to know the religious principles of Islam, try the Quran. If you want to know the culture and societies of the world, read history but distinguish scripture from culture. Try to refrain from sterio-typing real human beings in your generation and God's word from the acts of the heinous fiends of history. Scalped or disemboweled any Indians this week Paul? <<So it didnt die out 1400 years ago as you would lead me to believe.>> I suggested no such thing. I said God delivered scripture clearly forbidding it 1400 years ago. Of course common sense and messages to us since Adam also should have made it clear that this was an underlying theme. Every Isrealite has followed the Torah perfectly since its delivery, right Paul? Every Christian has followed the message of Jesus since its delivery, right Paul? Starting to see a pattern here Paul? If so it reflects bigotry against Muslims. <<...therefore it must not exist!!!>> Again I have explained more than once that the prevelence of atrocious behavior of humans on humans in this world does not surprise me. It is infact well documented for all of us for all times in God's scripture. The only thing that would surprise me would be if it didn't exist. As that would prove the Quran, and Bible false. However, you took a book that describes some behind the scenes dirt, took that as the gospel truth and applied it to the whole of Saudi Society. tsk tsk. You have comparative information from me, if no where else, to show you that this is not representative of the culture at large. Yet, what did you do. Shame, shame. <<..but (most of) the people however are firmly and hopelessly stuck somewhere in the 8th century.>> Typical view of an outsider. Anything that is Western and progressive is "Good" and anything that is not is "Bad". Of course the big issue in the West is "womens equality" which was proclaimed in Islam over 1400 years ago. This scripture made Islam the laughing stock of the tough desert nomads of Arabia. It might surprise you to know that the women in Islam consider their role equal and complimentary to men and vica versa. They are not forbidden to participate in higher education or the business world. My wife is a PhD in Engineering. The cautions are taken very serious, however, in regards to interacting with men who are not your husband. This is pooh, poohed a lot in the west. Hmmm...Know any women who have ever felt compromised on the job Paul? I have done my own informal survey, and although it doesn't come up 100% on the harrassment scale, it does come up 100% on the complaint measure for being treated unfairly and inappropriately as a woman. When you have 100% of the women complaining, you might want to take another look at your criticisms of the status of muslim women and whats really happening. A Palestinian was sitting at a restaurant the other day when a cute waitress came to his table. He asked her what her father did. She explained that he is a very successful lawyer. The Palestinian asked why, under these circumstanses, would she be presenting herself as a servant for other men in this fashion, in a place like this. She said that her father had given her a couple of thousand to move to get set up in an apartment and that she needed to prove that she could make it on her own from there. The conversation ended politely. You and I would see her situation as nothing that unusual. The Palestinian was beside himself. He could not understand how any father with one penny in his pocket or one breath of life left would subject his daughter to this, to him the ultimate humiliation. Too old fashioned for you, I know. <<Mostly by fanatics hoping to charge up crowds, and dictators and demagogues using the imagery of "an evil empire" to cling to power.>> Been watching CNN (Clinton News Network) again huh. You really need to get out more and talk to the folk. And not just the ones attracted to Western materialism. <<Please understand I have nothing against Moslems. I have had detailed discussions about it with people...>> So, you are saying if I go out and have detailed discussions with people about Christianity say, In Afganistan or Arabia and read a few of their books on the subject, I would become an unbiased authority on the subject. Uh huh. gimme a break.