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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: The Philosopher who wrote (38100)	5/12/1999 5:40:00 PM
From: Jacques Chitte	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

>I succeeded in showing Chuzz a valid equation where 2 + 2 did NOT equal 4.< No. This is important, Chris! Two plus two is four. If you call it 11 base three, it is the same central concept. Consider algebra as an extension of arithmetic. Algebra is independent of the numeric base we use. It's just as valid in decimal or binary or <you name it>. If we allow that arithmetic is a special form of algebra - then 2+2 + 4 becomes invariant, regardless of what lingual or descriptive overlay we apply to it. 11 base three and IV share the same essential Four-nature. Greg Bear wrote about an alien species that approached math differently from humans. They didn't think in terms of hard, definite integers 9in fact the concept was a bit of a stretch for them) but in fractally-dimensional things called "smears". Makes a nice story, but actually building a comprehensible, self-consistent math on this idea is a whole 'nother bucket of snakes. btw in base 2, there's 11 of us. You are SO outnumbered. :-)

To: The Philosopher who wrote (38100)	5/12/1999 6:59:00 PM
From: E	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

<<<... I have no idea what if any life is "out there," but I know it won't speak English, and I have serious doubts whether its math will look anything like ours... I succeeded in showing Chuzz a valid equation where 2 + 2 did NOT equal 4.... as to what dolphin or Martian mathematics may be like....>>> Sure, Christopher, there are any number of useful systems in which 11 and 4 can be identical, but they do not represent numbers of items that could lie on one's desk, which it might be sensible to restrict ourselves to. The most obvious real world example is that 11 + 2 = 1 on a clock, ie, base 12. But no dolphin will ever agree to trade you 13 fish for 1, even if you throw in a couple to sweeten the deal.

To: The Philosopher who wrote (38100)	5/13/1999 2:38:00 AM
From: Krowbar	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

I saw a documentary on TLC where a monkey was doing math with just pictures of bananas. When he saw 2 bananas put in an empty basket and then a moment later 2 more bananas were placed in the basket, he correctly pointed to the picture of 4 bananas when asked "how many now?" The picture of 4 bananas could have been correctly labeled 4, in base ten, or 11, in base 3. He didn't give a shit, and neither do I, what the label said. And I bet he can't arrange 17 bananas in n rows with the same number in each row. Del