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Pastimes : Makah whale hunters are they savages? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: David Montgomery who wrote (14)	5/19/1999 9:56:00 PM
From: c.horn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 157

What a bunch of hypocrites..... Is a cow's life less important than a whale's? How about a chicken's? You guys go to the supermarket and buy meat? Right? How do you think it got there? Was it always wrapped in plastic? Or did someone haul it down a chute, shoot it in the head, then cut it's throat. Then put a lasso around it's hind legs and hang it up to bleed out.. Next thing you'll say..... "Well I'm a vegetarian.." My condolences C

To: David Montgomery who wrote (14)	5/20/1999 3:05:00 AM
From: Bob Lao-Tse	Respond to of 157

"We have the history that the "white man" ran the Indians off and proceeded to destroy everything in his wake, and now we have the white man saying that he's done all the destruction possible, so the Indians can't kill a few whales. An anomoly of history. A real cultural problem. A real philosophical problem." The basic issue, well stated. See, this is another form of the incrementalism that people recognize in their own pet causes. The Makah's ability to legally kill whales opens it up for other groups to claim the same legitimacy and then, next thing you know, we're back to enormous floating factories "harvesting" them. But if we make an exception solely for the Makah, then we're discriminating based on ethnicity, which is theoretically illegal. And besides, their ancestors were apparently killing whales back when our ancestors were still over in Europe burning witches, so they do have some claim to the practice. Of course, we don't burn witches anymore, so... As you say, a real problem. Moderation is the key. The problem isn't the Makah, it's the floating factories. So long as it's moderate, I have absolutely no problem with them going out, even with non-traditional equipment, and killing a whale. I personally prefer most animals to people, but I'd also eat dog if someone were serving it. I just don't think it's that big a deal. Do potatos have souls? Do french fries scream when you put them in a deep fryer? Just wondering. Remember, moderation is the key.

To: David Montgomery who wrote (14)	5/21/1999 12:03:00 AM
From: Alan Smithee	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 157

David: When you get right down to it, if only the Makahs kill a few gray whales, it probably wouldn't be a big deal. But if you add to that a few California, Oregon, Washington, British Columbian, and Alaskan industries dumping all sorts of crud in the water, the conservationists and the rednecks and all supporting all those industries, and the Japanese, Russian, Polish, and wherever else whalers just wanting to take another crack at things, you have a real problem Only thing is, the Makah are the only U.S. Tribe with treaty whaling rights. So I doubt you see tribes from Calif., Oregon, or other US tribes putting out to sea in pursuit of whales. Gotta love that muk tuk...

To: David Montgomery who wrote (14)	5/21/1999 8:41:00 AM
From: Hubert Few	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 157

D. Montgomery said: We have the history that the "white man" ran the Indians off and proceeded to destroy everything in his wake, and now we have the white man saying that he's done all the destruction possible, so the Indians can't kill a few whales. An anomaly of history. A real cultural problem. A real philosophical problem. I wish I knew the answer. I think the human race just as well give up on the idea of "preservation". It should be obvious that all races and cultures have the single-minded focus of defoliating and ruining any "natural" surroundings. The reasons certain cultures seem more "attuned" to a "natural" relationship to the planet include things like rampant bacterial infections wiping out large numbers of their group in one fell swoop. Had their numbers been larger the native americans would have fucked up the North American continent many moons ago Like the little pot-bellied Africans, denuding their own lands and then waging war on one another over over who has the largest bundle of sticks....it's pathetic, a fitting ending to a fluke in evolution. A creature that seeks to destroy it's host outright....even viral infections are smarter than that! Ha! Humans suck.....we are like a mite infestation that won't go away, a persistent blood sucking parasite that denounces anything not human. The modern day "native americans" are for the most part much more concerned with running bingo parlors and getting liquored up than any bullshit cultural heritage. It's a sham, it's past, they have arrived at the same scummy juncture in their evolution as the European mongrels that beat them out of their territories fair and square. The "gift" we have that could conceivably make a difference, our capacity for "reason" and "logic", is dramatically overshadowed by the innate capacity to be programmed into mindless sheep who buy any lie that comes along, be it religious or political. If I offer you a refuge not of this world, and tell you that all of your "worldly suffering" matters not, you will line up like so many suckling calves and get drunk off the milk. Until humanity is purged of the lie of religion, and faces the cold dark reality of being a very long shot in a game of craps, the planet is ultimately doomed....there is no over-riding reason to protect that which is assumed to be "worldly" and undesirable. Maybe next time.