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To: Clarksterh who wrote (30868)	5/25/1999 10:20:00 AM
From: Jon Koplik	Respond to of 152472

Re: "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" Wouldn't the phrase : "Inquiring minds want to know" (or whatever it was) (from the National Enquirer) be more appropriate ? Jon.

To: Clarksterh who wrote (30868)	5/25/1999 10:39:00 AM
From: limtex	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 152472

CH and Ramsey - ******OT Chinese********** Sure China has had some troubles recently and Tian an men was awful but in general:- Have you ever experienced how close and caring Chinese families are? Grandmothers, aunts, uncles and cousins all taking care of the elderly and the young as a family duty. No duty isn't the right word because they seem to love the responsibility and their joy at having elderly relatives with them and taking care of them is a real lesson to all of us. Have you ever seen the agony that Chinese parents suffer over their kids upbringing and education? Chinese are allowed one child per couple. from my experience in China it doesn't seem very much to me like the Chinese are keen on warlike activities and maybe that has something to do with the one child issue! Best regards, L

To: Clarksterh who wrote (30868)	5/25/1999 2:28:00 PM
From: w molloy	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 152472

While I make no claims to understand the current Chinese mindset, it is certainly true that different cultures put a different value on life. The Japanese in WW-II are the perfect example. Whole civilian populations committed suicide rather than suffer the humiliation of surrender. Clark - you are being ridiculous. I know may Chines and Japanese, and they would put many Americans to shame regarding family values. You know for a fact that whole civilian populations commited suicide? How? A mass falling on swords. Funny, I dont remember reading about that. I do seem to recall the fire bombing of Tokyo and a couple of nuclear incidents at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I gues the US must have done a Kevorkian, aiding and abetting these 'mass suicides'. Oh the good citizens of Dresden Germany must have had suicidal tendancies too, so much so that the US and British felt compelled to help them meet their maker. I can't believe that so many people (and you know who you are) on this thread are historically and culturally so ignorant. What is it with the education system in the country. Of course, I'm assuming you are all Americans, right?

To: Clarksterh who wrote (30868)	5/25/1999 5:43:00 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 152472

Clark, fair comment and it's hard to judge values. Money is not a good guide to abstract values. Pain and happiness are notoriously difficult to measure. The original comment promulgated the 'gook' concept of Asians making them into a less than human species. When people say things like they don't suffer as much or they don't value human life, I'm inclined to think they are not adopting a strictly academic approach to human values with precise scientific terms. As you say, in some contexts and cultures, human life is of low value. I heard a USA schoolgirl had a baby, her and her boyfriend put it in a garbage bin and went back to the LindyHop. Culture is as culture does [to coin a phrase]. Gunfire in schools. Multi, multi, multi shots into some unarmed foreigner black guy in New York. Whole civilian populations in Japan committing suicide rather than suffer the humiliation of surrender? Really? Such an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence? You are suggesting the children did so too. That would be the most extraordinary claim I've ever heard. Whole populations of children don't commit suicide for anything. The women? The mothers of those children? Or do you mean some men, perhaps in groups, together perhaps with some of their wives? A bit like Hitler in his bunker? That would make a bit of sense. When Japanese commit ritual suicide, it is not that they don't value life, but that they value the community so much higher. Or the concept for which they take that action. It is a sense of being over and above their own narrow interests. Like Buddhist Monks in Vietnam burning themselves. Like people winning a Victoria Cross in military action. The USA has Purple Hearts, but presumably they have awards for valour too, some of which are probably awarded posthumously. Those people value their own lives but some community concept even higher. China had a high female abortion and [illegal female infanticide] rate, at least until recently when their population control efforts have been overly successful to the extent that they won't be continuing serious population control. Hence the big excess of young males. That's poverty and desperation for you. I doubt that the mother doesn't value her baby. It isn't true that desperate people value their children less, it is just that they are desperate and helpless. People give up at some stage. Okay, gotta go. Sorry, don't know Limbaugh and wouldn't it be the right wingers saying Clinton's henchmen did the murdering? Sure is a nice day! Mqurice