Silicon Investor - Genealogy

[Mad2] I can’t remember how I stumbled onto this thread but I must say I’m impressed wi...

Mad2 — 7/18/2023 2:07:48 PM

I can’t remember how I stumbled onto this thread but I must say I’m impressed with the links you have provided.
Too bad it’s not very active.
Mike

[ManyMoose] God bless you all, and I pray that you will have a lovely Christmas with your fa...

ManyMoose — 12/24/2022 6:43:23 PM

God bless you all, and I pray that you will have a lovely Christmas with your family.

[Frank Sully] OT: Serendipity Again! How I Became A Tar Heel - Best Dook! Beat Dook! It was r...

Frank Sully — 9/18/2022 11:49:14 AM

OT: Serendipity Again! How I Became A Tar Heel - Best Dook! Beat Dook!

It was really just by accident <Wink!> that I went to Chapel Hill, North Carolina for graduate studies in mathematics, with the goal of getting my Ph.D. I had been taking mathematics courses at the State University of New York at Albany, SUNYA, known as the “Poor Man’s Princeton” <I ended up with 70 credits in mathematics out of a total of 120 credits; SUNYA was very progressive and had done away with college requirements: only remaining requirements: 48 credits in your major, and 30 credits in your minor. Remaining courses whatever you like. So I took philosophy, starting with junior level courses (I had read some Kant in high school) in epistemology and metaphysics, and Logic, but got disheartened because although many interesting questions are formed, no answers are ever offered. And then switched back to mathematics, my first love as a child. Here I found that “God had written the answers in the Book”, as the mathematician Paul Erdos used to say.

Proofs from THE BOOK is a book of mathematical proofs by Martin Aigner and Günter M. Ziegler. The book is dedicated to the mathematician Paul Erdos, who often referred to "The Book" in which God keeps the most elegant proof of each mathematical theorem. During a lecture in 1985, Erdos said, "You don't have to believe in God, but you should believe in The Book."

I became friends with two quite excellent mathematicians who had a profound influence on me:

Ted Turner, a Differential Topologist who got his Ph.D. at UCLA: a person who studies the bizarre shapes and twists and turns that can occur in higher dimensional smooth topological spaces; he taught me Topology, including Knot Theory, and Linear Algebra; I eventually applied to The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (the “Tar Heels”) with a pitch about doing research in differential topology.

Norm Winarsky, a Harmonic Analyst who had done both his Undergraduate and Graduate studies at The University of Chicago, but who became disheartened with the life as a college Professor because of the low salaries and ended up working for the RCA Sarnoff Research Labs. He taught me two semesters of Advanced Calculus, the nuts and bolts of differential topology, and then did an independent study with me on dong Calculus on smooth topological spaces (called”manifolds”): we had used Spivak’s excellent little paperback, “Calculus on Manifolds”, and excellent introduction to differential topology.

This all gave me an excellent preparation to study with Sheldon Newhouse at the University of Notth Carolina at Chapel Hill. They accepted me and offered me a Teaching Assistantship (I would teach a course in either Pre-Calculus or Calculus and they paid my tuition and rent and board, as well as some entertainment money. I also did some tutoring for the athletic department, trying to keep those football players eligible for the game, and other althletes as well. UNC believes in educating their athletes. The basketball players(I was there when Michael Jordan and the Tar Heels won the NCAA and the students literally <painted the Streets ‘Carolina Blue’>) had their own personal tutoring program which travelled with them around the country.

When they accepted me they thought I would fit well with Sheldon and he quickly accepted me as a doctoral candidate. I began attending a weekly Dynamical Systems Seminar, and went to some research conferences and went on to do a thesis under Dr. Newhouse in “ Entropy, Dimension and Chaos of Real and Complex Polynomial Dynamical Systems”. Like the Dead say, “What a long, strange trip it’s been!”

BTW, St. Paddy’s Day was always great fun! The Irish musicians would come down from the mountains to play Irish music at my local Irish pub, “Molly Maguire’s”.

Slainte!

Erin Go Bragh!
Proinseas

[Frank Sully] OT: Julia Set Fractals: My Mathematical Research Message 33978373 [graphic] [...

Frank Sully — 8/29/2022 4:17:12 AM

OT: Julia Set Fractals: My Mathematical Research

Message 33978373

[Frank Sully] OT: The Story of the Irish and how the Sullivan Clan came to New York State And...

Frank Sully — 3/29/2022 11:13:36 AM

OT: The Story of the Irish and how the Sullivan Clan came to New York State

And from the two-dozen page Geneology work I did in 2003, quoting from Seamus MacManus’s fantastic”Story of the Irish Race: (And this is God’s honest truth as it was told to me. < Wink! >

Prehistoric Ireland and the coming of the Celts

Literacy and writing came to Ireland with the coming of Christianity in the fifth century A.D. But the first Irish settlers arrived sometime around 900 B.C., so the prehistory of Ireland is shrouded in myth and legend.

Only recently has the archaeological evidence displaced some of the myths. For example, until recently (e.g., in Seamus MacManus’s 1921 “The Story of The Irish Race”, there was a widespread belief that prehistoric Ireland had had a series of invasions: first, the Firbolg < the original Celts >, then the Tuatha De Danann, who “unlike the uncultured Firbolg, the Tuatha De Danann were a capable and cultured, highly civilized people, so skilled in the crafts, if not the arts, that the Firbolg named them necromancers”. Then in 1,100 B.C. or so the legends say, a fleet of Celts from Spain led by the wife and sons of King Milesius invaded Ireland. These Milesians overthrew the Tuatha De Denann and established a Celtic empire. “But archaeological vidence shows no indication of large-scale movements of people into Ireland from overseas; immigrants trundled in over hundreds of years.” < McCaffrey, C. And Eaton, L., “In Search of Ancient Ireland” (2002). >

McCaffrey and Eaton hypothesize that many of the misconceptions about the pre-history of Ireland arose in the late nineteenth century, when Irish civilization was trying to reassert itself after centuries of British domination. The new Irish patriots grasped at myths for a storied and glorious past. Yet, even if no Milesian invasion occurred sometime before the time of Christ, a strong Celtic influence was evident, even if it grew gradually. The roots of the Irish Gaelic language are evidence enough, and there is archaeological evidence of some Celtic influence dating to 300 B.C. And later.

The first Irish settlers arrived during the Mesolithic period, or Middle Store Age, sometime after 10,000 B.C., after the end of the latest Ice Age.

There is more extensive discussion in my 24 page booklet on Irish History and Family Geneology. Anyone who wants a copy can send me a private message with your mailing address. I can mail you a copy if you give me $10 to defray printing costs.

For the condensed version of how the Sullivan Clan came to New York State see the link below:

Message 33245986

Slainte! (Irish for “Cheers!”)

Proinseas (Irish for “Frank”)

O Suilleabhain (Irish for “Sullivan”, aka 'Eagle-Eyed”)

Your local Irish Mathematician and Observer.

Welcome to my world!

Cead Mile Failte! (Irish for “A 100,000 Welcomes”)

[ManyMoose] Happy Day after St. Patrick's Day! When I worked in the field in upstate New Yo...

ManyMoose — 3/18/2021 1:22:28 PM

Happy Day after St. Patrick's Day!

When I worked in the field in upstate New York, I had dinner at a restaurant where a large table of Irish were singing their hearts out very beautifully.

[Frank Sully] The migration of our family, the Sullivans, from Ireland to upstate New York ...

Frank Sully — 3/17/2021 6:02:05 PM

The migration of our family, the Sullivans, from Ireland to upstate New York State around 1820 can be seen in the context of the British oppression of the Irish Catholic population. The Sullivans were poor farmers in the tiny town of Clunsast, in King's County (now Offaly County), west of Dublin. There was a more well-to-do family in Clunsast, the Ennis family. Their son, Thomas, was a revolutionary who became involved in the failed Rebellion of 1798 against the British occupiers. The British put prices on the heads of the organizers of the Rebellion and Thomas Ennis fled Ireland for America. He was an educated man (rare for Irish Catholics in those days) who had studied mathematics and engineering. He became a surveyor for the original Erie Canal in upstate New York State. He was well paid for his efforts, and received gold and land. He received a tract of land called the Pagan Purchase near Verona, New York, because it had been purchased from the Oneida Indians who were presumably pagans. He desired to establish an Irish Catholic town on his land and wrote back to his home town of Clunsast, Ireland that any family which would immigrate to America would receive forty acres of land and 100 dollars in gold. Our ancestors, the widow Elizabeth Sullivan and her sons, were among the dozen families who immigrated and formed the Irish Catholic town of Irish Ridge around 1820. They eventually moved to the western part of New York State, south of Buffalo, where my grandfather was born. He became a high school mathematics teacher. and married and moved to the New York City region, where I was eventually born and raised. Happy St. Paddy's Day!

Slainte!
Frank

[ManyMoose] Wow! That is a very compelling video! I'd love to trace my DNA back that far. ...

ManyMoose — 3/28/2020 12:02:28 AM

Wow! That is a very compelling video!

I'd love to trace my DNA back that far.

[TimF] The Forefathers of Estonians [youtube video] youtube.com

TimF — 3/23/2020 2:58:15 PM

[ManyMoose] Thanks so much for the information, Frank. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to fi...

ManyMoose — 1/14/2018 10:12:22 PM

Thanks so much for the information, Frank.

I'm pretty sure I'll be able to find links to my heritage. My blood grandfather on my mother's side was named Russell Davy. He was a jerk who left my grandmother while she was pregnant with my mother. He descended from Sir Humphry Davy, who is well-known in Wales. King George III knighted him in 1812 for inventing the Davy carbide lamp, which revolutionized the coal mining industry.

Sir Humphry was one of the first substance abusers but I suppose he can be forgiven because in that era it was the only way to test the effects of some of his inventions, such as nitrous oxide, which some of you may have inhaled at the dentist's office.

He wrote the first book on Fly Fishing: 'Salmonia', or Days of Fly Fishing.

He was also an art critic, and declared that the Louvre in France held the finest collection of picture frames he'd ever seen.

Davy ran around with Mary Shelley, who may have gotten her idea for Frankenstein in his labs. Samuel Taylor Coleridge was one of his poet friends.

[Frank Sully] I spent two weeks in four towns in Ireland. I rented a car and stayed in bed & b...

Frank Sully — 1/13/2018 7:20:48 PM

I spent two weeks in four towns in Ireland. I rented a car and stayed in bed & breakfasts. A travel agency set up the customized trip for me. One thing to remember re: tracing your roots is that prior to the 20th Century Ireland was occupied by England and the Catholic population was treated like cattle.My father's family came over to America about 1820 and though I knew what town they came from I was unable to find any trace of them there. My mother's father came over about 1900 and I was able to get a copy of his birth certificate but no other info. It was an enjoyable trip nonetheless.

Frank Sully

[ManyMoose] I would love to hear any tips or suggestions you have about your travels in Irel...

ManyMoose — 1/13/2018 5:55:49 PM

I would love to hear any tips or suggestions you have about your travels in Ireland. I too have Celtic roots and I would like to retrace them in Ireland, Scotland, and Wales.

What's to avoid? What's especially interesting? Pitfalls to avoid? and so forth.

[Frank Sully] My Mathematical Heritage For this week's topic I thought I'd discuss how I can...

Frank Sully — 1/12/2018 5:37:57 PM

My Mathematical Heritage

For this week's topic I thought I'd discuss how I can trace my mathematical heritage to Daniel Bernoulli, of thermodynamics fame. I just thought that you might find it interesting that "in a sense" I am related to this illustrious family of mathematicians, as I explain below.

http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/HistMath/People/Bernoullis/RouseBall/RB_Bernoullis.html

The Bernoullis were a family of Swiss mathematicians. The family was originally from Holland but was driven out by Spanish persecution and settled in Switzerland. The eldest Bernoulli was Jacob. He studied mathematics with the famous mathematician Gottlieb Wilhelm Leibniz (who received his Ph.D. in 1666). Leibniz was one of the cofounders of Calculus, along with Sir Isaac Newton. Jacob never received a Ph.D., but became Chair of the mathematics department at the University of Baile in 1687, where he remained until his death in 1705.

His younger brother, John, studied with Jacob and received his Ph.D. in 1694. He then was Chair of the mathematics department at University of Groningen from 1695 to 1705, and then succeeded Jacob as Chair at University of Baile from 1705 to 1748. The "younger" Bernoullis, sons of John, were Daniel, Nicholas and John the Younger. Daniel wrote the Hydrodynamique in 1738.

One of the students of John (the Elder) was the famous mathematician Leonard Euler,who received his Ph.D. in 1726. This mathematical heritage was passed down from generation to generation over the next two and a half centuries until "modern times". My thesis advisor's advisor was the famous mathematician Steve Smale, and his mathematical geneology can be traced back to Leibniz and the Bernoullis through Euler. Smale received his Ph.D. in 1957 at the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor. He received the Fields Medal in 1966 in Moscow (the Fields medal is the mathematical equivalent of the Nobel Prize.) In the 1960's Smale developed the modern theory of Dynamical Systems, an offshoot of the study of differential equations.

One of Smale's many students at the University of California at Berkeley was my thesis advisor, Sheldon Newhouse, who received his Ph.D. in 1967. Newhouse established a small, elite group of dynamical systems specialists at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill during the 1970's. I studied there with Sheldon from 1977 to 1984 when I received my Ph.D. in Chaos Theory and Fractals. So, in a sense, I am related to the Bernoullis, at least mathematically. I apologize if I've bored you.

BTW, in addition to mathematics, I find history and geneology to be fascinating. I've traced my roots back to Ireland and spent a January several years ago traveling about Ireland visiting the locations where my ancestors lived. The previous year I traveled about upstate New York visiting the locations where my ancestors settled in America in the early 19th Century.

Cheers,
Frank "Sully"

[ManyMoose] I will try to be more active on SI on 2018. You and all my friends there are ne...

ManyMoose — 12/30/2017 7:53:00 PM

I will try to be more active on SI on 2018. You and all my friends there are never too far from my thoughts and prayers. I'm just too busy to do much more than I am now.

[Neeka] Hi MM........good to see you again, and sorry about the shoulder. I'm sure you'r...

Neeka — 12/28/2017 11:12:10 AM

Hi MM........good to see you again, and sorry about the shoulder. I'm sure you're on the mend and it will be good as new soon.

All is good here..........we're traveling as much as possible and meeting new people along the way.

And I'm like you................on and off with genealogy. Right now I'm off, but I did get back to upstate NY in Sept and managed to visit my 4th great grand father and grand mother's graves. I was happy to see the DAR had put a Revolutionary War medallion and American flag at his headstone.

lh3.googleusercontent.com

Take care and stop by more often!

[ManyMoose] I just wanted to wish all my SI friends Merry Christmas! I hope you are all well...

ManyMoose — 12/26/2017 11:13:31 PM

I just wanted to wish all my SI friends Merry Christmas! I hope you are all well and enjoying life.

I am OK, but my left arm is in a sling after shoulder replacement surgery December 5. It's hard to do the simplest stuff one-handed, like tying shoes, pulling up pants, and so forth.

Because of this, I'm going to copy this same message in two or three of my favorite subjectMarks.

I finished Seasons one and two of a Starz Series called "Outlander." It is based on a series of novels of the same name by Diana Gabaldan. I stumbled across the series and started watching a few episodes in the middle of the series. At first my reaction was: "What a preposterous premise!!! Nobody believes in time travel."

I quickly fell in love with the acting and the quality of production and directing. Few motion pictures are as captivating.

Luckily, Comcast had "Outlander" in its archives and I was able to begin at the beginning and watch all of Seasons One and Two in sequene. Each episode ended with a hook that demanded I watch the following episode, and I did as soon as possible. I eagerly awaited the final episode of Season Two and watched it on schedule. I thought that was the last season to be offered, and I wanted to know how it ended. Then I learned that there would be a Season Three next year.

I liked the what I had seen so much I wanted to own the entire set. Amazon made it available to me on DVD, so now I can watch the first two seasons with my wife.

Normally I do not like productions that are excessively violent, or have too much explicit sex. Outlander without excessive violence would have been pointlessly vague, and would have lost some of its appeal without the explicit sex. Explicit does not mean it was pornographic, in my view, though I would blush to watch it in mixed company.

So, I recommended the series to both of my sisters, and they both gave me the same answer! "Yes, I have read all the books and they are indeed fantastic!"

My oldest sister Maggie told me today that she had researched our family genealogy and found that it leads directly back to the Celtic culture depicted in the Outlander series. In fact, one of our ancestors turned out to be a Scottish Earl, who was also a veteran of the Battle of Culloden. en.wikipedia.org. She also said there were similarities to the parts of the story that I know nothing about yet because I haven't read the novels. They say Jamie and Claire ultimately settled in South Carolina, where ancestors on my father's side owned lands granted to them by King George III. And, by the way, where the first "ManyMoose" is buried. I looked into this several years ago and sure enough there's a gravestone in the Dothan Cemetery with my name on it, dated near the beginning of the nineteenth century.

I am not at all surprised to learn that I descended from the Celts, as their realm and environment and customs have long interested me. Even the landscape appeals to me like no other, even the wilderness that I've known all my life.

Anyway, I look forward to digging into my genealogy again.

Merry Christmas, each and every one of you!

[Neeka] John FitzAlan the 6th Earl of Arundel was my 22nd great grand father. en.wikipe...

Neeka — 1/24/2017 9:49:03 PM

John FitzAlan the 6th Earl of Arundel was my 22nd great grand father.

en.wikipedia.org

en.wikipedia.org

[Neeka] About 10 months ago I paid money for a six month subscription to ancestry.com. I...

Neeka — 8/7/2016 6:50:30 PM

About 10 months ago I paid money for a six month subscription to ancestry.com. I did a lot of research and had a WOW moment when I found out that my fifth (5th) Great Grandfather served in the Continental Army advancing to the rank of Captain, and that he was directly involved in the Second Battle of Saratoga at Bemis Heights serving under Benedict Arnold.

I ended up doing a search on line using his name and ran across this wonderful biography. It's kind of long, but really details who he was and the sacrifices he and his family endured. He was one of the original members of Rogers Rangers during the French-Indian War and his invaluable experiences during that period led to him being asked to join the Continental Army when the war with Britain was all but certain. After preforming many duties in many positions, he was finally commissioned as Captain in the Continental Army on April 1, 1776

I am very proud to know he was my Grandfather and I have made sure that my children know from whom they come. My husband and I will make a pilgrimage to upstate NY early next spring and visit the graves of his and other ancestors who fought in the various wars our nation went through during and after our founding. I intend to continue my research into him and other ancestors this winter, and hope to learn more about them, their families and their sacrifice.

"INCREASE CHILD 1740-1810"

stagge-parker.blogspot.com

[ManyMoose] I'm posting this communication from KLP in its entirety. If you want to know w...

ManyMoose — 1/10/2014 12:11:13 PM

I'm posting this communication from KLP in its entirety. If you want to know what I think, follow this link: Read Replies (1)
To: ManyMoose who wrote (223334)	1/10/2014 1:11:12 AM
From: KLP	Read Replies (1) of 223339

MM~~ and ALL Historians or any who are interested in History....I don't know where our Genealogy thread is, so had to post this here....This is sickening if one really does love History and/or Genealogy! David, if you know where that Genealogy thread is, please post this there too....This woman had this article on her FB account, and I will tell you that there are LOTS more responses to this, but the LAST one I added here has the address and phone number etc, of the person most responsible for this loss.....This is just another example of what is happening in our schools....There seems to be not very many who really care about History of the United States....no wonder why our kids are so ill-informed about History and the Miracle of America.... Sadly, KLP The link to this is: facebook.com Timeline of the Destruction of 100 Year Old Franklin County, NC Records December 8, 2013 at 8:33pm I am Diane Taylor Torrent with The Heritage Society of Franklin County, NC. I want to thank everyone for your involvement and the help that each of you offered us on Friday, December 2013 when the Franklin County management acted upon their decision to destroy the 100 year old records discovered in the courthouse basement. This has been a long 7 months and we were hopeful up to the end that the outcome would be different. I know you have a lot of questions so here is a timeline of what lead to this event. In May, a new Clerk of Court (Patricia Burnette Chastain) was appointed following the resignation of the long serving clerk, Alice Faye Hunter. Mrs. Chastain soon discovered that the basement had been unopened for some time. Upon opening the basement we found stacks and stacks of books, boxes, loose papers, ledgers, etc. dating from approximately 1840's to the 1960's. They were strewn everywhere. There was obvious mold in the back section and evidence of water damage. After much investigation it was revealed that through the years the basement had been used for overflow of records awaiting retention dates as well as other items deemed unnecessary or non-vital. They were then forgotten. The basement was also used for storage of old furniture, cleaning supplies, broken or no longer used doors, and whatever else there was no room for upstairs. The two rooms were in a mess. We could barely open the door and had to crawl over everything to reach the back room. The boiler flooded the basement at one point. It was also discovered that an air conditioner unit was venting into the basement causing the majority of the mold. Some records had been ruined by the mold, but most were completely viable. A quick investigation of the records revealed boxes from most every department of the Franklin County government. There were items from the court as well as register of deeds, county finance, board of education, sheriff's office, county jail, elections board and many others. Mrs. Chastain and I spent the 3 day Memorial Day weekend hauling away trash from the basement. We pulled out trailer loads of bagged trash, broken furniture, torn carpeting and used cleaning supplies in order to be able to get to the records. Furniture was up righted and arranged in a make shift office in the front room. We were then able to begin picking up some of the records that were strewn about the floor. Over the years the boxes had weakened from either time, carelessness or water damage. We were told that when the boiler burst and the basement flooded years ago, workers repairing the boiler (not courthouse clerks) retrieved many of the papers and books from the flooded floor and simply laid them on the shelving, resulting in more mold and destruction of the wet papers. Most boxes fell apart when you moved them resulting in many of their contents spilling out. Many times these contents had been piled on top of other boxes and combined with other records so that most of the boxes actually contained a variety of items. A box with records on the top level dating in the 1960s actually had records from the 1800s on the bottom. We quickly learned that each and every box and piece of paper would need to be investigated. We collected as many boxes as we could find to hold the loose papers. Boxes were used from other departments as well as local businesses, the liquor store, retailers, anywhere we could find an empty box. Some of these boxes had writing or labels and 2013 dates from the department they came from which would later lead to misinterpretation by county officials that there were records of a "sensitive" and current nature in the basement. Had they looked inside the box they would have discovered their true contents. Now that the area was more accessible a plan was needed to be developed to find the true value of what had been discovered and what could be done to preserve the documents and best share the information with the public. The Heritage Society of Franklin County, NC presented a program on May 16th to its membership along with members of the community to discuss the best way to proceed. Present were local historians, genealogist, friends of the library, the arts council, the new Clerk of Court and County Commissioner Sidney Dunston. All present were shown photos of the basement and the condition of the records. Mrs. Chastain recognized the value of having a group of genealogist and historians available who were willing and able to ascertain the historic worth of these records to the community and asked the Heritage Society to review, record, digitize and preserve the records. Due to space constraints and conditions in the basement it was decided that only a few would be allowed to begin the work. The Heritage Society provided the appropriate protective gear for the work to begin. Masks, gloves, sanitizers, etc. were bought by the Society and placed in the basement for the use of everyone entering. We were very excited and went to work immediately straightening, organizing and investigating. Immediately we found Chattel Mortgages from the 1890's, court dockets from post civil war to prohibition, delayed birth certificate applications with original supporting documents (letters from Grandma, bible records, birth certificates, etc), county receipts on original letterhead from businesses long extinct, poll record books, original school, road and bridge bonds denoting the building of the county, law books still in their original paper wrappings, etc., etc. etc. The list goes on and on. Our original feelings of shock that the records were there and in such bad condition led to feelings of joy that they were still there and that someone had thought to retain them for us to discover so many years later. Each book or box opened produced a new treasure. A letter, stamped and in the original envelope, from a Franklin County soldier serving in France during the First World War asking the court to be sure his sister and his estate was looked after while he was away. A naturalization paper from the late 1890s for an immigrant from Russia escaping the tyranny of the Czar. A document from County Commissioners in the early years of road building requesting another county repair their road as it entered the county. Lists of county employees and what their wages were in 1900. A court document paying the court reporter who took the depositions in the "Sweat Ward" case, (Ward beheaded a man in the 1930s and later became the last man to be lynched in the county). Postcards, county bills, audits, cancelled checks, newspaper clippings, store ads from long gone businesses. Boxes and boxes of court cases covering the years of prohibition, a docket from an individual accused of running a "baudy house" within the city limits, a photo tucked now and then inside a book, one of the courthouse unseen since the 1920s. Again, nothing was in any order and many of the boxes were combinations of records from many decades. In June, we requested new, clean file boxes from the county management so that we could begin saving some of the more important documents. We received around 40 office type white file boxes which we then filled with records from the floor as well as from boxes that were falling apart. Understandably we were thrilled. Out of an abundance of caution and because we wanted to handle each document and treasure with the respect it deserved, WE (The Heritage Society) contacted the NC State Archives for advice on handling old documents and the best archiving method. This was where we began loosing the battle. The Archives stepped in and decided that they should have control over ALL of the basements contents. They sent a representative who looked through the basement and said that they would get back to us with a report on the next steps. We continued working when we could in the cramped, dusty and moldy environment of the basement while we waited for an assessment from the Archives. June and July were very wet months and many days we were unable to enter the basement. It was becoming obvious that we would not be able to continue working under these conditions and certainly would not be able to bring in all of the researchers who were waiting to begin the task of preserving these documents. On August 5, 2013 a request was made at the County Commissioner's meeting, on the behalf of the Heritage Society, by Steve Trubilla to provide adequate space for the preservation to continue. JM Dickens, a local business owner, had graciously donated the use of office space across the street from the courthouse and many citizens had made offers of supplies. The Commissioners agreed to provide electric and water to the offices for 6 months. Keys were turned over to the Society and we began stocking the offices. Holt Kornegay, the county librarian attended the next meeting of the Heritage Society and expressed that he would be able to train the volunteers to use a computer program designed to archive the records so that they would integrate into the system and would be accessible to the public. A request was made to The United Way to supply the Society with computers and Steve Trubilla donated a scanner/copier. By August 13th the offices were ready to go and Mrs. Chastain provided trustees to begin moving the first set records up the 23 flights of stairs to the newly donated space. All of the new file boxes, repacked with the old, dusty records from the basement floor, were moved to the upstairs space We were ready to begin once I returned from a two day business trip out of town. When I returned everything had changed. First, on August 15th, the issue of insurance for the office space and the Society arose and halted progress. Superior Court Judge Bob Hobgood offered to pay for the insurance for the 6 months that the offices were in use. At this point the Society felt that the support of the community was behind them and everyone was coming together to preserve this exciting time capsule of their history. We were then told by the county management that the Heritage Society had to "stand down" as the issue of "chain of command" had arisen. We were told that management had become concerned, four months into the process, that there were items of a "sensitive", i.e adoptions, social services, etc., nature in the basement that should not be made public. This had resulted from the misinterpretation mentioned earlier regarding reused boxes with labels that did not denote the actual contents of the box. Concern was that chain of command and protocol should be followed for each pair of eyes that viewed the records. The problem existed that with the records being in such jumbled order and no way of knowing what box belonged to which department without going through it, there was no easy way for each department to view only their own records. It should be noted at this point that every piece of paper, book and box touched by the Heritage Society had been carefully logged and organized. Nothing had been removed and the time capsule was intact. It was now that I discovered that during my absence, access had been obtained (not through chain of command and the Clerk of Court) and county management had allowed people from the elections board, education, register of deeds and the State Archives and others to go through the basement and the office and remove items that they deemed to be under their control. Items were strewn about the office floor and boxes that had been carefully stacked were opened and askew. ALL of the new white file boxes were gone, taken by the State Archives. There was no way of knowing who took what or what was missing. No one had left a log. Our immediate question was how did this action fall within the chain of command? How was it better to have so many hands and eyes on the records searching for what may be theirs rather than a few careful historians organizing and sorting? The time capsule was now compromised and we no longer had control of the integrity of the records. We had been asked to stand down. We were still waiting for an assessment from the State Archives on the value of the records and the AOC (Administrative Office of Courts) was preparing a report on the retention dates of the court records. A more complete inventory was needed so I was allowed to do a cursory accounting of what remained in the basement by simply labeling boxes by year range and approximate contents. Again, none of the ledger books were opened and investigated due to time and space restraints. The assessment from the State Archives finally arrived in October with the rules as they applied to retention dates of each box that had been cursory inventoried. Remember, each box still contained a variety of records even though they were labeled according to approximate dates and contents. It was the position of the Archives that since all of the records had long since met their retention dates and there was some mold present in the basement that the records were of no value and should be destroyed. ALL OF THE RECORDS should be destroyed and could not be preserved by the Heritage Society because of the chance of contamination. Of course we were upset and immediately appealed to the county management to reconsider. I questioned as to why so many of the white file boxes were taken by the State Archives if they were dangerous and of no value. The reply was that they were "clean". The same records that had been picked up off the floor and placed in the new, clean white boxes were no different from the records that still remained in the basement, they were just in a pretty box. The County management concurred with the Archives. I asked many times who was actually in control of the records? Was the advice from the Archives a suggestion or a mandate? My biggest question was at what point does a public record go from being a simple piece of paper with a retention date to a historic document simply because of its age? My questions were unanswered. We appealed to the County Commissioners, our state representatives, the Governor was even contacted. We talked endlessly to the state Archives, we contacted the state Genealogical Society, the newspapers, anyone that would listen. I requested to at least be able to view and review as each item was removed from the basement so that items of extreme interest could possibly be set aside and photographed before destruction. I was denied. Unfortunately, I believe that no one actually believed that they really would destroy these documents until it was too late. I would like to say that I believe that everyone involved did what it was that they felt had to be done. There are rules and laws that dictate the handling of state, county and public records. Protocol should be followed and certain privacy issues need to be adhered to. However, there comes a time when common sense and doing what is right should be part of the process. These records were a special circumstance. They had outlived their retention dates by many, many years. They survived and existed in spite of the passage of time, water damage, neglect and mismanagement. I cannot tell you the thrill you feel when you hold in your hands a piece of paper, 100 years old, that survived to tell the story of those that came before you. How do you make the decision to destroy something that has survived so long? The sad thing is that since we were not allowed to complete the inventory of ALL of the basement's contents, we will never know what was lost. Hopefully, that is a question that the County's leadership will be able to live with. Ledgers from the Franklin County basement that were destroyed on December 6, 2013 Some of the worst of the mold damage Chaos found when the basement was opened in May. Bundles of letters and court dockets from the 1800s still tied with string Stacks of boxes unaffected by the mold

[ManyMoose] That sounds about it, doesn't it? It reminds me that I have 31 great great gran...

ManyMoose — 9/11/2013 3:18:02 PM

That sounds about it, doesn't it? It reminds me that I have 31 great great grandfathers that did absolutely nothing like me, and only one who got knighted by a King against whom our country fought a war of independence.

[KLP] THIS EXPLAINS the Problem!!! LOL!! Anyone else have the same problem?? I like...

KLP — 9/10/2013 12:45:00 AM

THIS EXPLAINS the Problem!!! LOL!! Anyone else have the same problem?? I like Hunting much more than Gathering..... XXOO KLP

Breaking News: Scientists Pinpoint the Origins of Piles of Genea-Crap

by Kerry Scott on 25 April 2011

MILWAUKEE, Wisconsin—Scientists at Clue Wagon Worldwide Headquarters announced today that they have found a way to trace the origins of the mysterious piles of crap that appear on the desks of genealogists whenever they get near a computer. “We’ve seen this play out time and time again,” said genealogist-ologist Dr. Pat Smith, who studies genealogists in their natural habitats. “Genealogists sit down with every intention of doing good work, sticking to their research plans, and carefully entering information into their databases. Then they get distracted, and three hours later, they’re buried in a pile of printouts and empty candy wrappers. It’s a problem.”

Dr. Smith says he’s invented a device that tracks the actual thought patterns of a genealogist as she sits down to do research on the internet. To demonstrate, he hooked the new device to an unnamed genealogist in Milwaukee. Here’s a transcript of the actual thoughts in the genealogist’s brain as she sat down to enter some data into her database:

[BEGIN TRANSCRIPT]

Okay, I’m totally going to enter stuff in my database. Here is my pop. Here is my box of Kleenex. I’m ready to go.

Okay, here’s Luella Woolley. Do I have her picture in there? No? Lemme go get that. [open photo manager]. Oh, hey, look, there’s my kids. Have I tagged those photos of them from our vacation yet? Nope. [tag tag tag]

No, wait, stop that. Focus on Luella. I’m entering Luella in the database. Got her picture…uploaded. Okay. Let’s pull her folder from the file cabinet. Hey, haven’t looked in here for a while. There’s the name of the funeral home. Did I write to them? Do that now. [type type type] Hey, did I check the newspaper since they added to the GenealogyBank collection? [check check check]. Not there. Maybe under first name? Kid’s name? Hey, what’s this interesting article?

Okay, no, focus on Luella. I’m supposed to be entering her stuff into the database. [enter enter enter] Wait. Have Luella and Albert been added to the Minnesota Marriage Index yet? [check check check] Not there. Maybe this spelling? [check check check] Maybe that spelling? [check check check] Hey, I probably should be writing this down in my research log. Where is that form? [shuffle shuffle shuffle] Hey, this form is kinda sucky. Should I remake the form? Yes. [type type type]

Wait, no, no remaking forms. Focus. Focus on entering stuff in the database. Except…what if I search the marriage index for just her first name? What will happen if I type just “Lu” or “Lou”? [check check check] It would help if I had her maiden name. Can I find her in an early census? When was she born? Is that in the paper file? [shuffle shuffle shuffle] Okay, she was born in October 1883 according to the cemetery. Let me check all the Luella’s born around then in the 1900 census. [check check check] Hmmm. None of these look like a direct hit.

Wait. I have her in subesequent censuses. Where were the parents born? [shuffle shuffle shuffle] No, none of these match. Hey, is she on Find A Grave? [check check check] Oooo, look. There she is…but there her birth date is listed in 1882. Go back and check all of the Luellas in the 1900 census born in 1882. [check check check]

Hey, I’m kinda hungry. Any chocolate Easter candy left? [pillage pillage pillage] Holy cow. Two chocolate bunnies. The kids will never miss these. [chomp chomp chomp]

Wait, no. I’m supposed to be entering stuff in the database. And I will, just as soon as I put stamp on the letter to the funeral home. Where are the stamps? [shuffle shuffle FREEZE] HOLD THE PHONE. Could they have gotten married in Washington State? They lived there later. Maybe they married there, came back to Minnesota, and then left again. What sort of records would Washington State have online? [google google google]

Hey, what’s this? Washington Digital Archives? HOLY COW!! PAYDIRT!!! Print! Print! Print!! Oh, and PRINT!!! ADD PAPER!! HOLY COW!!! LOOK AT ALL THIS GOOD STUFF!! PRRRRIIIINNNNTTTTT!!!

[END TRANSCRIPT]

Dr. Smith reported that the genealogist in question spent three hours and 12 minutes on this. At the end, she still hadn’t entered Luella Woolley’s information into her database, but she now had a big pile of stuff she had to sort through. Additionally, she failed to start dinner on time, so her poor family had to eat the Mama-Got-Carried-Away-on-the-Internet Dinner (frozen pizza and breadsticks made from dough that comes in a pop-open can).

Dr. Smith’s next project will be to study the nutritional deficiencies of the children of genealogists.

Photo by striatic

[ManyMoose] Thanks! I added that to the thread header.

ManyMoose — 9/5/2012 11:23:07 PM

[KLP] If you go to this site, you will find all sorts of excellent links, grouped toge...

KLP — 8/23/2012 3:13:46 PM

If you go to this site, you will find all sorts of excellent links, grouped together by type! Happy Searching!

http://www.lockportlibrary.org/genealogy/index.htm

[steve harris] What are "stoppages" as used here: soldiersforgotten.com "and 6 month and ~ da...

steve harris — 6/29/2012 4:06:46 PM

What are "stoppages" as used here:

soldiersforgotten.com

"and 6 month and ~ days commutation for clothing ($25) less $~~ stoppages"

He was paid for providing his own clothes for $25 less unknown amount for what they provided?

Steve

[Neeka] That is a good idea in case I lose it. TY!

Neeka — 4/30/2012 10:45:27 PM

[ManyMoose] Excellent post! Rather than reproduce it, I am just putting a link in the Heade...

ManyMoose — 4/30/2012 9:29:19 PM

Excellent post! Rather than reproduce it, I am just putting a link in the Header.

siliconinvestor.com

[Neeka] Is your whole post just one big keeper. I put it in my genealogy folder and I kn...

Neeka — 4/30/2012 8:20:25 PM

Is your whole post just one big keeper. I put it in my genealogy folder and I know it will come in handy. There was one site called "Crossing the Pond" which had information on immigrants from Europe. I'm hoping to find my great grandmother there. She came across from Christchurch (there are two of them in Norway, so I need to find out which one) Norway at the age of 16. Married an Irishman and promptly had 2 daughters. My Great grandfather died young..........not sure how..........and she took the girls, hopped a train and came across country to the PNW. I know she worked at the UW as a cook at one of the sororities, but not which one. She worked for them for yrs and also worked as a cook at Denny Park. Seattle school children would go there for weekend retreats and she would cook the meals. Her Mother and Father were Oly and Inga Olsen.........ouch.........and she died in Tacoma in '67. That is pretty much all I know about her, but I'd love to find out more.

[ManyMoose] Isn't that sweet? I have those same feelings when I explore old cabins and the ...

ManyMoose — 4/23/2012 2:05:11 PM

Isn't that sweet? I have those same feelings when I explore old cabins and the ruins of houses.

[KLP] Here's the 2011 Family Tree Maker Magazine list of the 101 Best Genealogy Sites...

KLP — 4/23/2012 10:46:57 AM

Here's the 2011 Family Tree Maker Magazine list of the 101 Best Genealogy Sites:

1 Best Websites for 2011

10/14/2011
By David A. Fryxell
Add a wow factor to your online research—our annual 101 Best Websites list highlights dynamic tools for discovering and sharing your family history.
We admit it—we’re spoiled. Gone are the days when we were impressed by bare-bones lists of links. Even databases of transcribed records fail to thrill us as they used to. Genealogy websites have been around long enough now that we expect the same technological sophistication—and maybe a little razzle-dazzle—we experience every day elsewhere on the web.

Happily, plenty of genealogy sites (and others handy for family historians) have embraced what some are calling “Web 2.0.” This year’s 101 Best Websites roundup tilts a bit in their direction, giving a nod to flashy websites chock full of family history finds. Of course, we still value sites containing a zillion indexed records, but isn’t it even better when such a database has an attractive interface and souped-up search capabilities?

Unlike last year, when we singled out free websites, the 2011 compilation includes both free and subscription sites. Though some mostly free sites charge for premium services, you’ll see a symbol only next to sites where you have to pony up for the core content. Ready? Go ahead and spoil yourself a little with these 101 stellar sites.

Click a category to visit the sites in each one.

More Online:

Free Web Content

For Family Tree Magazine Plus Members

From ShopFamilyTree.com

[KLP] Hi Everyone.....One of the reasons we all are interested in genealogy is explain...

KLP — 4/23/2012 10:41:30 AM

Hi Everyone.....One of the reasons we all are interested in genealogy is explained in the poem below. This was recently found in a 94 year old's papers and read at her funeral.......

Strangers In The Box
by Pam Harazim

Strangers in the box
Come, look with me inside this drawer,
In this box I've often seen,
At the pictures, black and white,
Faces proud, still,and serene.
I wish I knew the people,
These strangers in the box,
Their names and all their memories,
Are lost among my socks.
I wonder what their lives were like,
How did they spend their days?
What about their special times?
I'll never know their ways.
If only someone had taken time ,
To tell who, what, where, and when,
These faces of my heritage,
Would come to life again.
Could this become the fate,
Of the pictures we take today?
The faces and the memories,
Someday to be passed away?
Take time to save your stories,
Seize the opportunity when it knocks,
Or someday you and yours,
Could be strangers in the box.

[ManyMoose] Thanks, Tim. I wish I had those guidelines when I still had my parents. We hav...

ManyMoose — 3/16/2012 6:34:36 PM

Thanks, Tim. I wish I had those guidelines when I still had my parents. We have a record, but it would have been far richer if we had asked the right questions. Now it's too late.

[TimF] Fifty Questions for Family History Interviews What to Ask the Relatives genealog...

TimF — 3/16/2012 6:06:46 PM

Fifty Questions for Family History Interviews What to Ask the Relatives
genealogy.about.com

Just realized this is a duplicate, that I posted it almost 4 and a half years ago. Still it might be worth repeating since its been awhile, so I won't delete it.

[calgal] This will be helpful!

calgal — 2/19/2012 6:37:05 PM

[calgal] Tim, that is cute and funny. Thanks!

calgal — 2/19/2012 6:35:06 PM

[Neeka] What an incredible site............thanks so much for posting. Such a keeper!

Neeka — 2/9/2012 7:12:26 PM

[KLP] You are most welcome, Neeka....I thought that was so cool! I just bookmarked t...

KLP — 2/7/2012 1:57:33 PM

You are most welcome, Neeka....I thought that was so cool!

I just bookmarked the site "Eye Witness to History" as well....great source to provide some background to what was going on in our ancestors lives ....and helps us understand their lives and times much better.

eyewitnesstohistory.com

[Neeka] Oh...........that's great................I shared it on my FB wall.

Neeka — 2/6/2012 7:15:39 PM

[KLP] Revolutionary papers: Historic newspapers detailing Revolutionary War saved Fe...

KLP — 2/6/2012 3:36:45 PM

Revolutionary papers: Historic newspapers detailing Revolutionary War saved

February 5, 2012 By KIM FUNDINGSLAND -

Staff Writer ( kfundingsland@minotdailynews.com) , Minot Daily News

The precise movements of Lord Cornwallis and his army of redcoats are clearly detailed on its pages. So, too, is the marching orders issued by Gen. Gates and the number of supply ships arriving at nearby harbors. The fascinating events of the Revolutionary War dominate the old parchment.

Rick Brown, Minot, owns several 1777 editions of "The Independent Chronicle" printed "across from the new Court House" in Boston, Mass. A drawing of a Revolutionary War soldier adorns the top center of the front page. The soldier holds saber in one hand and a scroll in the other. The scroll reads, "Independence."

That the historic documents survived 235 years is as remarkable as the stories contained in them. Brown rescued the impressive texts from a Washington, D.C., dumpster and from rising flood waters. The former Virginia resident lived near Mt. Vernon, the home of George Washington. He moved to Minot in 2006.

"My father drove the subway back and forth from the Rayburn Building to the Capitol," explained Brown.

The Rayburn Building houses offices, committee and hearing rooms for the U.S. Congress. Among the duties Brown's father was asked to do one weekend was the cleaning out of storage rooms.

"He called me and said, you wouldn't believe what they are having us throw away," said Brown. "I told him to ask if I could do some dumpster diving and was told that it would be just fine."

The items being tossed out included several newspapers from 1777. Brown recognized their historical content and wasn't about to let them go to the local dump. One entire truckload of early American heroes and leaders encased in plaster frames had already been hauled away.

"The papers are on a cloth-like parchment. They are just very, very interesting. There's a lot of history in these things," said Brown. "One article talks about looking for deserters. There's another about Martha Washington going to Williamsburg and they gave her a 21-gun salute when she arrived."

Brown and his wife live on Cedon Drive, one of the areas hard hit by the 2011 flood. The rare documents were secreted away in the basement of their home when the Souris River was rising rapidly. It was time for another rescue.

"I happened to look up into that cabinet and said, oh my gosh, I've got to take these," recalled Brown. "I put them underneath the back seat of my pickup truck in a plastic bag. Thank God I remembered them because there was a lot of stuff I didn't get. It's unreal the amount of history that is in these papers."

The papers are encased in acid-free folders on the advice of a Mt. Vernon librarian who recognized their value. Brown rarely exposes the 1777 issues to sunlight, doing his best to preserve the papers as properly as possible.

Other interesting Revolutionary War items in Brown's possession include a buckle from a 1776-era boot and a quill pen with ivory handle. The buckle was discovered by Brown near a swamp located adjacent to the site of the Chancellorsville battle of the Civil War.

"I took the pewter buckle to an expert at a Civil War show," said Brown. "He said it was the right boot buckle from Colonial days. He could tell by the way it was curved, one side a little longer than the other."

Brown was surprised to learn of the actual time frame of the relic, previously believing it must have been Civil War-era since it was recovered not far from a famous Civil War battlefield. Presumably, the buckle came from the same time period as his 1777 newspapers, making a very unique complement to his collection.

There's one thing Brown has not been able to learn, and that is the identity of the man whose name is written in quill at the top of his old newspapers J. Mansfellow.

"I'd like to know who it is. I tried a bit but can't find any history on that person," said Brown.

© Copyright 2012 Minot Daily News. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[KLP] Thanks, MM....It will cheer us up while looking for our 'folks'.....

KLP — 1/31/2012 11:51:49 PM

[ManyMoose] Signed sealed and delivered!

ManyMoose — 1/31/2012 9:30:09 AM

[KLP] OH MY GOSH Tim, that is just sooooooooooooooooo funny! And the funny thing is, I...

KLP — 1/31/2012 2:24:02 AM

OH MY GOSH Tim, that is just sooooooooooooooooo funny! And the funny thing is, I sometimes wonder if we aren't getting tapped on the shoulders by those same ancestors, saying the same things as were said in the right hand panel....

Thanks! It deserves to be on the Header (then I could find it again...it hopefully won't get lost in my bookmarks...)

....MANY MOOSE>>> are you listening? <ggg>

[TimF] abstrusegoose.com

TimF — 1/30/2012 11:20:34 PM

[KLP] Know what you mean about Ancestry, MJ.....some of my things are on there, becaus...

KLP — 8/16/2011 3:29:51 PM

Know what you mean about Ancestry, MJ.....some of my things are on there, because other "cousins" have put the info out there.....But I haven't taken the time to do anything there as yet....have used it to find some more 'cousins' because I keep thinking that someone, somewhere, will have some of the letters and pictures I'm looking for....Once in awhile, we luck out!

[KLP] Find a Grave really is just an excellent source of info....There are still of co...

KLP — 8/16/2011 3:26:30 PM

Find a Grave really is just an excellent source of info....There are still of course, MANY cemeteries that haven't been added.....but for those that have, WOW!

[ManyMoose] Thanks for those links. I added them to the header. Our header has quite a few...

ManyMoose — 8/14/2011 12:05:25 PM

Thanks for those links. I added them to the header. Our header has quite a few links now, thanks to you and others. I have not been working on Genealogy for quite a while, but I'm still interested.

[caly] I'm waiting to see if findagrave.com eventually falls to ancestry. It's an amaz...

caly — 8/14/2011 11:32:10 AM

I'm waiting to see if findagrave.com eventually falls to ancestry. It's an amazing resource completely populated with data from volunteers. I've found graves of dozens of distant relatives who wandered west in the 1800s and never knew where they eventually died.

[MJ] Being one of the early writers on Ancestry I have seen it go from a 'free' ser...

MJ — 8/14/2011 7:03:29 AM

Being one of the early writers on Ancestry I have seen it go from a 'free' service, to a charge as it became more popular to now their making a profit off of our writing.

That's why I am not writing on Ancestry.Com anymore.

They are making money off of our personal writing and family documents and research on family lines.

Yes I am for free enterprise but not when I retain no right to the information I provide based
upon unique documents that exist no where else as many writers on Ancestry provide .

I know there is a way to protect one's writing-------------------one way is to declare that the writing you are doing is copyrighted and include it on any writing you do. No doubt this does not fully do so.

Regardless of my grouching--------Many Moose has done a good service on SI by starting this board and others adding to the list of resources.

mj

[KLP] You're most welcome! So many early sites have been purchased by Ancestry and are...

KLP — 8/14/2011 2:27:42 AM

You're most welcome! So many early sites have been purchased by Ancestry and are now $$ to obtain, that it is good to find FREE sites still available, and new ones when we can find them.

If you can find Family Tree Magazine, it is an excellent source for many things Genealogy-wise.

[ManyMoose] Thanks for both links, Karen.

ManyMoose — 8/13/2011 7:20:18 PM

[KLP] Mocavo: This is another really good site....Just be sure to put names in quote ...

KLP — 8/13/2011 4:43:52 PM

Mocavo: This is another really good site....Just be sure to put names in quote marks....i.e. "KLP"

mocavo.com