Silicon Investor - The "Zimmerman" File

[Fizz] Heroes and Villains: The Indignity of the George Zimmerman–DMX Boxing Match

Fizz — 2/7/2014 6:54:50 PM

[jlallen] Message 29105223

jlallen — 9/10/2013 7:39:49 PM

[TopCat] "He’ll still represent him in his defamation suit against NBC, though." After ...

TopCat — 9/10/2013 7:17:38 PM

"He’ll still represent him in his defamation suit against NBC, though."

After all, that's where the money is.

[Sedohr Nod] A lawyer wanting to get paid and a couple getting a divorce having a spat....san...

Sedohr Nod — 9/10/2013 7:10:31 PM

A lawyer wanting to get paid and a couple getting a divorce having a spat....sand on a beach, water in an ocean, blue in a sky.

Certain biases in the stories about GZ are easily palpable.

[Sdgla] No gun was ever found. iPad video could be key in George Zimmerman domestic dis...

Sdgla — 9/10/2013 6:57:09 PM

No gun was ever found.

iPad video could be key in George Zimmerman domestic dispute probe
Published September 10, 2013
FoxNews.com

Sept. 9, 2013: George Zimmerman, right, is escorted to a home by a Lake Mary police officer in Lake Mary, Fla., after a domestic incident in the neighborhood where Zimmerman and his wife Shellie had lived during his murder trial. Zimmerman's wife says on a 911 call that her estranged husband punched her father in the nose, grabbed an iPad out of her hand and smashed it and threatened them both with a gun. Zimmerman was recently found not guilty for the 2012 shooting death of Trayvon Martin. (AP/John Raoux)

LAKE MARY, Fla. – Video from an iPad belonging to the estranged wife of George Zimmerman may be crucial evidence in determining whether any charges are filed against the former neighborhood watchman, police said Tuesday.

Lake Mary Police Department spokesman Zach Hudson said the iPad captured video of the dispute, but the mobile device was “smashed” into pieces and needed to be examined in a lab.

"As of right now, a gun is not a part of the equation."- Lake Mary Police Department spokesman Zach Hudson

“It’s been pretty badly damaged,” Hudson told the Orlando Sentinel, adding that George Zimmerman could potentially be charged with destruction of evidence if authorities confirm Shellie Zimmerman’s allegation that he destroyed the device.

Shellie Zimmerman, who filed for divorce last week a month after her husband was acquitted of fatally shooting Trayvon Martin in February 2012, called 911 on Monday, claiming her estranged husband was threatening her and her father with a gun. She later changed her story and decided against pressing charges. No gun was ever found.

Hudson told reporters police would determine whether domestic violence charges are warranted against either of them.

"In Florida when it comes to domestic violence, the person in question doesn't have the right to press charges or not press charges," Hudson said, adding that police investigate and "we either forward charges (to the State Attorney's Office) or make an arrest on scene."

Hudson said investigators do not believe a gun was involved in the incident, even though Shellie Zimmerman in her 911 call described her husband making threats with his hand on one.

"We searched him ... there was no weapon," Hudson said, adding later: "As of right now, a gun is not a part of the equation."

Zimmerman's attorney, meanwhile, has insisted his client did nothing wrong.

Last month, Shellie Zimmerman pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of perjury stemming from statements she made during her husband’s bail hearing after he shot Martin. She told the court the couple had limited funds, even though they had raised $135,000 in donations online for her husband’s legal expenses.

As part of the deal, Shellie Zimmerman wrote a letter of apology to Judge Kenneth Lester, who presided over last year’s bail hearing.

“By lying under oath, I let my God down, I let your Honor and the court down, I let my family and friends down, and, most of all, I let myself down,” Shellie Zimmerman wrote.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Read more: foxnews.com

[Sr K] It got a video mention by O'Mara on the CBS Evening News, part of an extended se...

Sr K — 9/10/2013 6:46:57 PM

It got a video mention by O'Mara on the CBS Evening News, part of an extended segment of over a minute.

Asked if he had a message for Zimmerman, O'Mara said, "Pay me."

[jlallen] Especially since O'Mara never represented him in his divorce in the first place....

jlallen — 9/10/2013 6:43:13 PM

Especially since O'Mara never represented him in his divorce in the first place....

[Sedohr Nod] Not much of a story.

Sedohr Nod — 9/10/2013 6:35:48 PM

[Sr K] washingtonpost.com

Sr K — 9/10/2013 6:03:55 PM

[jlallen] lol

jlallen — 9/10/2013 1:42:58 PM

[Shoot1st] Present company and innocent bystanders excluded........ if we had a caged deat...

Shoot1st — 9/10/2013 1:21:22 PM

Present company and innocent bystanders excluded........

if we had a caged death match between an attorney and an insurance agent......

I'd be rooting for the chain links.

Shootie

[jlallen] Howsabout when they have no assets but have income and it is used to guaranty th...

jlallen — 9/10/2013 11:28:56 AM

Howsabout when they have no assets but have income and it is used to guaranty that cash flow for alimony in the event of premature death....?

Its been done....but its not "standard".

or the attorney has a struggling in-law insurance agent that needs a commission to pay his CC membership>?

Now you're talking....!!! lol

[Shoot1st] Howsabout when they have no assets but have income and it is used to guaranty th...

Shoot1st — 9/10/2013 10:19:00 AM

Howsabout when they have no assets but have income and it is used to guaranty that cash flow for alimony in the event of premature death....?

or the attorney has a struggling in-law insurance agent that needs a commission to pay his CC membership>?

eh?

Shootie

[jlallen] Not when there are no children.....

jlallen — 9/10/2013 7:14:15 AM

[Sdgla] Zims wife probably didn't take the "Till death do we part" all that literal.

Sdgla — 9/9/2013 11:14:06 PM

[Sedohr Nod] I'll take your word for it....no experience here with disaffected females...plan...

Sedohr Nod — 9/9/2013 10:59:31 PM

I'll take your word for it....no experience here with disaffected females...plan on keeping it that way.

[DMaA] This is the law: get the money.

DMaA — 9/9/2013 10:49:40 PM

[Shoot1st] Actually, that's pretty standard stuff. Shootie

Shoot1st — 9/9/2013 10:31:28 PM

[DMaA] Tammy Wynette she is not. [youtube video]

DMaA — 9/9/2013 9:37:32 PM

[jlallen] lol Given all the threats he has rec'd....its like a lottery ticket for her....

jlallen — 9/9/2013 9:25:36 PM

[Sedohr Nod] I find this part of the story to be more than a tad bit interesting: In her div...

Sedohr Nod — 9/9/2013 9:19:20 PM

I find this part of the story to be more than a tad bit interesting:

In her divorce petition, Shellie Zimmerman asked that her husband pay for a permanent life insurance policy with her named as the beneficiary, according to a divorce petition made public last week.

[Sdgla] They're probably broke which will lead to some marital discord.... Wonder how th...

Sdgla — 9/9/2013 8:34:06 PM

They're probably broke which will lead to some marital discord.... Wonder how the law suit against NBC is going.

[jlallen] Sucks to be GZ.....they would be after him if he turned his library books in lat...

jlallen — 9/9/2013 7:44:11 PM

Sucks to be GZ.....they would be after him if he turned his library books in late....

[Sdgla] George Zimmerman's estranged wife says he threatened her with gun Published Sept...

Sdgla — 9/9/2013 4:17:06 PM

George Zimmerman's estranged wife says he threatened her with gun
Published September 09, 2013
FoxNews.com

Sept. 9, 2013: Police outside the home of Shellie Zimmerman in Lake Mary, Fla. (Fox News)

George Zimmerman's estranged wife has called police to her father's home Monday, saying the former neighborhood watch volunteer who was acquitted of the murder of Trayvon Martin threatened her with a gun.

Zimmerman is currently being questioned by police.

Earlier, he was in investigative detention and was being held handcuffed in the back of a police cruiser -- a procedure until probable cause is established for an arrest, Lake Mary Deputy Chief Colin Morgan told Fox News.

Lake Mary Police Chief Steve Bracknell says Shellie Zimmerman called police shortly after 2 p.m.

Bracknell told the Associated Press that officers are at the house trying to determine what happened.

"We've only heard one side of the story so far," Bracknell said.

Morgan said there are allegations that Zimmerman came to the home and Shellie's father was the aggressor in the incident. Police say Shellie told them that Zimmerman had his hand on his gun and became aggressive, then punched her father.

Shellie Zimmerman filed for divorce last week.

In the divorce petition, Shellie Zimmerman says she and her husband separated a month after Zimmerman was acquitted of any crime for fatally shooting Trayvon Martin last July.

Zimmerman's acquittal led to protests nationwide.

Read more: foxnews.com

[LindyBill] Black racism against Hispanics is well documented. Black people say Hispanics t...

LindyBill — 8/29/2013 3:51:49 AM

Black racism against Hispanics is well documented.

Black people say Hispanics taste like chicken.

[Wayners] Black racism against Hispanics is well documented.

Wayners — 8/29/2013 2:47:08 AM

[Wayners] Zimmerman waived his rights to a Stand Your Ground hearing and was acquitted on ...

Wayners — 8/29/2013 2:46:08 AM

Zimmerman waived his rights to a Stand Your Ground hearing and was acquitted on basic self defense. Stand Your Ground law didn't apply. Can't believe your hatred towards Hispanics who are partly Asian. Disgusting.

[LindyBill] Anti-Gun Group Distorts Zimmerman Case In “Stand Your Ground” Campaign ...

LindyBill — 8/20/2013 8:10:03 PM

Anti-Gun Group Distorts Zimmerman Case In “Stand Your Ground” Campaign

(John Hinderaker) The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence has produced a “public service announcement” urging repeal of the stand your ground provisions that are part of most states’ laws on self-defense. The ad features, naturally, the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case, even though that provision of Florida law had no application to the case–you can’t retreat when you are lying flat on your back–the defense did not invoke or rely on “stand your ground,” and the prosecution agreed that there was no such issue in the case. But since when have liberals cared about reality?

The ad features a partial re-creation of the encounter between Zimmerman and Martin–partial, because it skips from Zimmerman following Martin to Zimmerman standing up as Martin lies dead on the ground. So we don’t see Martin jumping Zimmerman, bloodying his nose, knocking him to the ground, jumping on top of him and pounding Zimmerman’s head repeatedly into the pavement. An objective person would consider those to be serious omissions:

The CSGV text that accompanies the video is consistently false or misleading:

With “Stand Your Ground” (aka “Shoot First”) laws, the National Rifle Association (NRA) and its partners in the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) have turned 3,000 years of jurisprudence on its head. Now you can provoke a fight, and if losing that fight, kill the person you attacked.

That is incorrect. The Florida statute is typical; stand your ground applies only if you are defending yourself after being attacked by someone else:

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

This part is wrong, too:

The NRA’s laws represent a dangerous and unprecedented escalation in the use of force in the public space, allowing individuals to kill when they merely fear “great bodily harm” (i.e., a fistfight, shoving match, etc.).

The Florida statute, like all other stand your ground laws (and self-defense laws generally) requires that the person invoking the defense reasonably believe that he or she will suffer “death or great bodily harm.” And I don’t think you would want to try to convince a jury that a “shoving match” gives rise to a reasonable apprehension of death or great bodily harm.

This is misleading, too:

Additionally, “Stand Your Ground” laws remove the duty to retreat from a conflict in public, allowing individuals to shoot and kill even when they could otherwise walk away safely from an altercation.

One of the principal reasons for stand your ground laws is that you can’t always “walk away safely” from an altercation. Remember that the principle can be invoked only if you have been “attacked” in a place where you have a right to be. At that point, we probably aren’t talking about walking away, we are talking about fleeing. But what if the person who attacked you can run faster than you can? Or what if he is armed, and shoots you in the back? Imposing a duty to flee, rather than defend oneself with deadly force, if necessary, places innocent victims of attacks in needless danger. Which is why most state legislatures have enacted laws allowing self-defense, with the usual qualifications, when residents are attacked outside their homes.

[LindyBill] Vindictive: Now George Zimmerman’s Wife Faces Perjury Charge As with her husban...

LindyBill — 8/14/2013 6:57:46 AM

Vindictive: Now George Zimmerman’s Wife Faces Perjury Charge
As with her husband's prosecution, there is no evidence to support a filing.

by
Mike McDaniel

Bio

August 14, 2013 - 12:21 am
Page 1 of 2 Next -> View as Single Page

The Zimmerman saga is far from over. Despite being acquitted of second degree murder charges, George Zimmerman faces federal prosecution, as the most racialist and politicized DOJ in history weighs the political implications. And his wife, Shellie, faces a trial for perjury scheduled to begin on August 21. Perjury is very difficult to prove, rarely filed, and much misunderstood. Florida statute 837.02(1) states:

Except as provided in subsection (2), whoever makes a false statement, which he or she does not believe to be true, under oath in an official proceeding in regard to any material matter, commits a felony of the third degree …

In addition, Cohen v. State (2008) held:

Statements alleged to be perjurious must be of “empirical fact” and not of opinion, belief or perception. … One of the essential elements of perjury in official proceedings is that the person making the statement does not believe it to be true. … The questions posed to elicit perjured testimony must be asked with the appropriate specificity necessary to result in an equally specific statement of fact.

Simply put, in order to win the case against Shellie Zimmerman, the state must be able to prove every element of the offense: that she (1) while under oath (2) in a judicial proceeding (3) made a false statement (4) that she knew to be false about (5) a material matter. In addition, that statement must be about a matter of objective fact, not an opinion or an incorrect guess. If a prosecutor doesn’t ask sufficiently direct and specific questions so as to elicit objectively factual responses, he’s out of luck.

Out of luck, that is, unless that prosecutor is engaged in a political action that ignores the law and legal ethics.

In many ways, the largest impediment to a successful perjury prosecution is the necessity of proving what a defendant believed. In this case, all the prosecution appears able to prove is that Zimmerman was under oath in a judicial proceeding.

The story begins on April 20, 2012, at a bond hearing for George Zimmerman, whose bond had been revoked by Judge Kenneth Lester. Judge Lester’s bias against George Zimmerman became so blatant that the Fifth District Court of Appeals removed him from the case on August 29, 2012, a rarity. Prior to that hearing, George was incarcerated and his phone calls and other contacts with Shellie were recorded. During the April 20 hearing, Shellie — who was in hiding due to credible death threats — testified by phone.

At issue is the existence of a PayPal account that had been established as a defense fund for George Zimmerman. The account balance was to eventually increase to a little more than $200,000, an amount that was to become a drop in the bucket of legal fees and expenses that still appear to have no end. At the hearing, all parties — judge, defense and prosecution — were aware of that account and were treating it as separate from the Zimmerman’s normal finances (checking account and savings account).

Mark O’Mara had been George’s attorney for only about a week and was struggling to get up to speed with every element of the case. At previous hearings, Judge Lester stated on the record that he had no idea if he had any authority to deal with that PayPal account and would have to research the matter. It appears that he never did that. In any case, everyone involved knew about and discussed the account; there was never any attempt to hide it, and George did not testify about anything at the hearing other than to briefly take the stand to apologize to the family of Trayvon Martin for his death.

By that point, the Zimmermans were destitute. Driven from their home by death threats and a relentless media falsely depicting George as a racist murderer, living in hiding, driven from their jobs and their schools, they had no income and no way to earn it. This, too, was well-known to everyone involved.

The affidavit for the perjury charge, written and submitted by special prosecutor investigator T.C. O’Steen, is — like the affidavit submitted for the murder charge — devoid of probable cause.

In fact, it does not establish a single specific statement made by Shellie Zimmerman and explain why that specific statement was false, why it was material, how it was a matter of objective fact, or why Shellie believed it to be false as she uttered it.

Of all of the elements of the offense that must be established and proved, the state established only that Shellie was under oath and testified in a judicial proceeding.

Not only does the affidavit fail to fulfill the elements of the offense, by omission it actually lies to and misleads the court. In this case, there is no doubt that Judge Lester was biased against George, but it is most likely that the affidavit was approved because judges are generally not used to dealing with prosecutors willing to lie to them. Receiving an affidavit for a felony charge, they tend to rubber stamp it, not considering that a prosecutor, an officer of the court, would mislead them. In this case, that’s exactly what happened.

This is the relevant excerpt from the affidavit of the cross examination of Shellie by Bernie de la Rionda:

Q: And you mentioned also, in terms of the ability of your husband to make a bond amount, that you all had no money, is that correct?

A: To my knowledge, that is correct.

Q: Were you aware of the website that Mr. Zimmerman or somebody on his behalf created?

A: I’m aware of that website.

Q: How much money is in that website right now? How much money as a result of that website was –

A: Currently, I do not know.

Q: Do you have any estimate as to how much money has already been obtained or collected?

A: I do not.

Compare it with the transcript of the same testimony. The sections of the transcript that were omitted in the affidavit are in italics:

Q: How much money is in that website right now? How much money as a result of that website was –

A: Currently, I do not know.

Q: Who would know that?

A: That would be my brother-in-law.

Q: And is he — I know he’s not in the same room as you, but is he available so we can speak to him, too, or the Court can inquire through the State or the Defense?

A: I’m sure that we could probably get him on the phone.

Q: Okay. So he’s not there now.

A: No, he is not, sir.

Q: Do you have any estimate as to how much money has already been obtained or collected?

A: I do not.

Q. Okay. You haven’t talked to your brother-in-law in terms of just bare amount of how much money?

A. No. No, I have not.

Q. Okay. And how long has that website been in existence, ma’am?

A. I do not know. I have not been with my husband since he’s been in hiding. I do not know.

Q. Okay. So you mentioned your husband was in hiding. I understand he left the state, is that correct?

A. That’s correct.

Q. Okay. And did you continue to have contact with him while he was out?

A. Yes, every day.

Q. And that was every day?

A. Yes.

Shellie testified that they had no money in their normal accounts and that she had no idea how much money was in the Internet account, but that her brother-in-law probably knew that information and that she could get him on the phone.

Notice that the pertinent information about the brother-in-law was completely removed from the affidavit.

[Wayners] The thing that really pisses me off is that the self admitted Leftist Zimmerman ...

Wayners — 8/4/2013 11:12:01 PM

The thing that really pisses me off is that the self admitted Leftist Zimmerman himself, requested that the Stand Your Ground hearing be waived. Stand Your Ground law had nothing to do with the case. It was irrelevant. This was a basic self defense case. You can see how liars and thieves twist the truth to their cause. Call them out on their lies at every opportunity. HB is at the top of her game.

[Honey_Bee] These people who are calling for the end of the Stand Your Ground Law are basica...

Honey_Bee — 8/4/2013 12:02:52 PM

These people who are calling for the end of the Stand Your Ground Law are basically saying that they prefer to protect the life of a would-be attacker rather than a would-be VICTIM.

Interesting in light of the fact that so much crime is black on white, that so many of the big mouths promoting this are black.

[Wayners] I might die in such an attack but I guarantee I'd get a finger in the eye and br...

Wayners — 8/3/2013 8:13:02 PM

I might die in such an attack but I guarantee I'd get a finger in the eye and brain of at least one of them.

[Wayners] ....and wildly optimistic fantasies about growth when they are up against really...

Wayners — 8/3/2013 8:10:36 PM

....and wildly optimistic fantasies about growth when they are up against really big numbers to grow.

[Wayners] Right on, all they were doing is scoping your house for a burglary.

Wayners — 8/3/2013 8:09:21 PM

[stock leader] take a giant whiff of federal/state/local finances.. you see billions and trilli...

stock leader — 8/3/2013 1:55:48 PM

take a giant whiff of federal/state/local finances.. you see billions and trillions in debts piled up like a giant heap of manure .. this is result mainly of spending waste , aid to hostile foreigners, unnecessary departments, and wildly optimistic assumptions on pension and health benefits.

as a result you are now seeing furloughs of some gov employees and programs.. you also see police in steady decline.. what are you going to do when some gangbanger accosts you on the street??? option 1---- try to call 911 on cell phone and wait 30 minutes for a cop to show up while your head is smashed against cement OR option 2----whip the gun outa your pocket and shoot the mofo in the nuts

[stock leader] obamma and his panther henchmen taking it upon themselves to bring down laws tha...

stock leader — 8/3/2013 1:49:02 PM

obamma and his panther henchmen taking it upon themselves to bring down laws that most americans accept..... Soon you'll see executive orders to bring down SYG and allow untold illegals to become rapid citizens. in the case of SYG, he wants to take away guns from whites (the high majority of whites are law abiding).. obamma also wants to declare most whites as "mentally ill" or "crazy crackers" so that they cannot obtain guns. obamma and holder are a terrorists best friend.

"Since Zimmerman's acquittal on July 13, Martin's grieving parents, backed by African-American civic leaders, celebrities, students and political figures, including President Barack Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder, have all said the Stand Your Ground law needs to be re-examined."

[ManyMoose] That is my fear as well. I've seen similarly dressed people sweeping into Walma...

ManyMoose — 8/1/2013 10:53:57 PM

That is my fear as well. I've seen similarly dressed people sweeping into Walmart like they were on a mission.

[FJB] How do you know it was a woman? And how do you know it is not a dry run for a s...

FJB — 8/1/2013 9:24:10 PM

How do you know it was a woman? And how do you know it is not a dry run for a suicide bombing/attack?

[stock leader] just saw some woman wearing a burka religious head dress at walmart checkout.. ...

stock leader — 8/1/2013 9:14:23 PM

just saw some woman wearing a burka religious head dress at walmart checkout.. THIS IS BULL CRAP. I suggest immediately that everyone in other religions dress in full garb. why are mus-slimes given a free ride but other religions cannot say or do anything?> time to get pissed

[DMaA] Billy Graham once worked as a Fuller Brush salesman.

DMaA — 7/31/2013 2:45:25 PM

[stock leader] cutco is the toilet of all sales jobs

stock leader — 7/31/2013 2:41:07 PM

[Bill] I've purchased cutco three times. Felt sorry for the kids. They try so hard.

Bill — 7/31/2013 2:17:59 PM

[stock leader] door-to-door sales magazines, avon, etc.. just another pyramid scheme ... those...

stock leader — 7/31/2013 2:14:23 PM

door-to-door sales magazines, avon, etc.. just another pyramid scheme ... those lured in are mainly naïve high school types or other rubes.. the kids mostly earn nothing or little from such endeavors. The good example is cutco knives..Cutco (also known as vector marketing) lures them into their tiny branch affiliate offices and the kids or rubes are offered so-called "jobs" of selling wildly overpriced knives to family , friends etc... Cutco actually requires "new hires" to purchase a big set of knives themselves. In essence these "employment applicants" actually are customers of cutco. it becomes embarrassing for the kids and most quit shortly afterwards..

[ManyMoose] That's a very interesting response. Thank you. These days kids will come to ou...

ManyMoose — 7/30/2013 1:55:44 PM

That's a very interesting response. Thank you.

These days kids will come to our door at the beginning of the school year selling something, popcorn, cookies etc., in order to finance school functions. That's not the same at all, but I've never been harassed by salesmen of any age. Part of it is I am quite able to say NO, but I usually say yes to the kids.

[diana g] I agree that this is a shabby sales-trick but I think it is less egregious than ...

diana g — 7/30/2013 1:49:00 PM

I agree that this is a shabby sales-trick but I think it is less egregious than theft. I am sure there are some thieves among the kids, but I think most are themselves victims in these scams. They were recruited to do door-to-door sales while traveling in a group. A kid who was trying for a career as a thief would not see this as an opportunity. The kids are promised by recruiters that they will make money on these sales trips but then the kids find themselves far from home with no way to get home making much less money than they were told to expect, being pushed to make sales and having their earnings cut by fees and expenses charged them by the overseers. The people running these operations know that a young poor kid will often be seen with pity and the promoters take advantage of that by recruiting these kids for door-to-door sales operations that confront homeowners with a poor kid on their doorstep who is trying to make money in an honest way. The homeowner pays too much for the widget because he wants to help the kid. The sales-overseer and the promoters take the lions share of the profits and the kids get a pittance. The real villains aren't there on the doorstep. The kids are taught ways to trick people into buying, and they do that, but if we were in their shoes, what would we do?

MM wrote:
No doubt, but that doesn't make it any more acceptable.

This could simply be a sales tactic taught and recommended by the crew chiefs of groups of kids who are selling door-to-door in a neighborhood and changing neighborhoods day by day.

[robert a belfer]
robert a belfer — 7/30/2013 12:43:39 AM
<This could simply be a sales tactic taught and recommended by the crew chiefs of groups of kids who are selling door-to-door >

I don't think so. I was at a motel in Kansas for a road trip this summer. I was hanging out in front of my door and had an opportunity to eavesdrop on what I believe was a crew chief giving training. It was all about being non-threatening and building rapport.

I suppose other crews could have different approaches but what he was saying made perfect sense from a sales POV.

[ManyMoose] No doubt, but that doesn't make it any more acceptable. This could simply be a ...

ManyMoose — 7/30/2013 12:08:35 AM

No doubt, but that doesn't make it any more acceptable.

This could simply be a sales tactic taught and recommended by the crew chiefs of groups of kids who are selling door-to-door in a neighborhood and changing neighborhoods day by day.

[Ish] Had a case when I lived in apartment. Big black guy was forcing his way in to se...

Ish — 7/29/2013 11:15:58 PM

Had a case when I lived in apartment. Big black guy was forcing his way in to sell magazines. He didn't try my door. Didn't try my door as I came home with 6 guns.

[stock leader] there was a case on "forensic files" of a black kid selling magazines door to do...

stock leader — 7/29/2013 11:06:19 PM

there was a case on "forensic files" of a black kid selling magazines door to door. At one house, the occupant did not answer the door, so he let himself in to rob the place. He went upstairs where he came upon the over 70 yr old white grandmother (she was hard of hearing and could not hear the door knock).. he murdered her on the spot. he then (in evil victory) sipped a soda from the frig.

[Travis_Bickle] Mob Of Teens Brutally Attack Man In Heart Of Little Italy baltimore.cbslocal.co...

Travis_Bickle — 7/29/2013 11:30:19 AM

Mob Of Teens Brutally Attack Man In Heart Of Little Italy

baltimore.cbslocal.com

Kids with baby faces can be quite dangerous

Good thing he didn't profile the little tykes or he would be in serious trouble.