OT - Response to JBinPA:
"Everyone may want to skip this one - Mav, I don't post often, mostly I read and your recent Bananna Republican rants make reading much more interesting ..."
JB - perhaps you said it all in your first line - Everyone may want to skip your post because their was IMO there was pretty much nothing of substance included. And for you to address my posts as Banana republican rants - well, that is uncalled for - and would be the same as me calling your posts worthless liberal drivel. neither accomplishes any sound purpose. If you want to debate the issues, fine - but lets debate.
"I would hypothesize that perhaps you truly do not understand what the word democracy means, nor what it took to achieve it, nor what has made this nation great "
Well, unfortunately for you, your hypothesis is wrong. You see, my original post was all about democracy, and the right of the military serving overseas for us to have their votes counted. That post is as follows:
Message 14840190
You then went on to say " Democracy is the American people speaking and being heard; all of them, each and every one ... even those whose voices certain individuals would muffle, stifle or ignore"
However, for you, you seem to not only contradict yourself, but you are only willing to accept democracy when it serves your purpose. For my post, linked above, specifically addressed the grave injustice being done to the men and women serving our country in the armed forces overseas - and HAVING THEIR VOICES STIFLED by Gore and his gang of Democratic lawyers - who carried out a concerted effort to block their votes. And yet you don't see that. So, in one simple post, you showed that it is you, and not I, who does not understand what democracy means.
You further noted that "Didn't we have enough of this in the Nixon years .... anyone who does not see eye to eye is labeled unAMERICAN? "
Ahhh, it seems that the trick of all the liberals, as evidenced by many of the posts on this thread, is to revert back to Reagan and Nixon - and place blame at their feet to misdirect the reader and try to divert attention for the real issue. Yes, no one will dispute their were problems under Nixon and Reagan - just as no one will dispute there were problems under Clinton and Carter. But none of those matter in this discussion.
If you READ my post carefully, I was not arguing that anyone who didn't see eye to eye was unamerican. Rather, I clearly noted that it was unamerican to take such action against the military - and that further it was unamerican to try and lie about it or disavow that it was true when the facts clearly show otherwise.
And please don't take my word for these facts - as I provided numerous links to them in a followup post. Any even minded person, liberal or conservative would certainly not dispute them. Just reference this post by Joe Smith:
Message 14843202
Joe has been very forthright in his opinions, and while I don't necessarily agree with many of his political thoughts, he has presented them in a fair and forthright manner. So, when he concedes in the above post that:
"I am indeed shocked by the military vote fiasco. Clearly they are willing to do anything they can to get a vote at the Goree camp. Clearly also, Gore did not learn enough from the master, slick Willie. Somehow, Bill would have come through all of this. But gore has probably destroyed any chance he has of leading the Dems in 2004. If had just kept quiet until yesterday and then walked away he could have set himself up as a principled leader willing to take charge if Bush fails. "
Hmmm, not only does Joe not dispute the facts on the military votes, but his post appears to be exactly what I was saying back in my initial post about the damage gore blocking the military votes will cause him in 2004
Then JB - you address the media saying "Mav, is this the same media whom Gov. Bush and most of the Republican party despise? The same media whom Karen Hughes is manipulating to make us believe that there is pandemonium in the streets of Florida when all we are witnessing is democracy in action"
yes, the same media. Again, any even minded person would agree that the nation's media has had for some time a clearly liberal bias. That fact is not in dispute. But to allege that "karen Hughes is manipulating" clearly shows your bias. I and numerous others have clearly posted that there is definite spin coming out of EACH side of this dispute. BOTH sides are playing to the media - and yet I find it funny that you seem it is only the Bush side attempting to manipulate it. You lose any shred of credibility with that comment.
finally, you conclude by saying "Much of what I have witnessed these past 10 days is sad .. underlying themes of racism, anti-Semitism, denigrating the elderly. Why? Because of an extraordinarily close election result? These same people being denigrated and pitted against eachother are those who made America the great nation it is; I find any attempt to stifle their words or votes truly unAMERICAN regardless of where that attempt originates. "
First off, I hope you are not accusing me nor anyone else on this thread of racism, anti-semitism, or denigrating the elderly - as I would vehemently dispute that.
Second - you once again contradict yourself in your closing statement where you speak out againt stifling their votes - and yet YOU TURN YOUR HEAD while Gore and company do just that to the men and woman in the military.
It would seem your idea of "democracy" is whatever is good for the "Democrats". Unfortunately, a true american believes otherwise. If you truly believed in democracy, and were truly against stifling anyone's votes, then you too would be outraged over the actions to block the military vote.
that you are not speaks volumes |
