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Gold/Mining/Energy : Oil Sands and Related Stocks

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To: Grommit who wrote (20851)	5/18/2008 2:10:31 AM
From: The Vet	Read Replies (1) of 25575

Grommit, all of your links are opinion pieces for public consumption and I am not disputing that there have been temperature increases. Why can't you understand that I am NOT disputing that there have been observed increases in temperature or that CO2 levels have risen. Why is it that you won't come to grips with the basic problem, which is that there is no good evidence that increasing levels of atmospheric CO2 has any significant influence on global temperatures and it never has in the past either. What I am disputing is that the CO2 levels are the primary cause of the observed temperature changes. I didn't bother to respond on the ice core explanations earlier because they are without a doubt a classic case of inventing a story to fit the facts when the facts don't support your basic case. The ice core data was presented by Al Gore in a fraudulent manner to try to convince the public that CO2 increases CAUSED periods of temperature increase. That was plainly a fraud and the way he presented it was to bolster that flawed argument. It is well established that the ice core data shows that CO2 levels only start to rise 200 to 1000 years AFTER the global temperatures had commenced to rise. Undoubtedly rising CO2 did not cause the warming period but followed it after a significant delay. CO2 rises were an effect of warming, not a cause. Subsequently, the apologists for the CO2 warming theory were forced to invent additional theories to explain this apparent contradiction. Even though they endorsed Gore's fraudulent presentation initially, the data was actually unambiguous and had to be explained away or their whole theory would collapse. Their approach was to say that some unknown mysterious factor initially caused the warming but that some 200 to 1000 years later the rise of the CO2 (without actually explaining why CO2 rose at all) "amplified" or "enhanced" the warming after that time. However this completely unsupported theory has many holes in it. 1. It admits that warming was triggered without CO2 increases but denies that the current warming could have the same cause as every event shown in the ice core record. There is no period that CO2 levels rose before the temperature increase in that record. This is the "it's different this time" argument with no evidence given to support that difference. 2. It doesn't show why the CO2 levels rose with temperature increases at all, when it is obvious that it wasn't burning of fossil fuels or human activity in the periods covered by the ice core data. 3. It proposes no logical or demonstrable process that caused temperatures to return back to "normal" after these heating episodes. If in fact the CO2 increases caused amplification of the "greenhouse effect" and additional rises then logically it should have gone into a "run away" mode and continued to rise indefinitely. When they do postulate on the failure of "thermal runaway" they talk about possible limiting factors, cloud cover increases etc. which can't be proven or measured and if true could just as easily be postulated to limit or prevent warming processes today. The better explanation which fits all known science, is that the heating was simply due to solar cycles and after a period of at least 200 years or more the ocean temperatures increased. The solubility of CO2 in water decreased (all gases are less soluble in warmer water) and this changed the normal equilibrium between the gaseous CO2 in the air and the soluble phase in the ocean. When the solar cycle turned cooler as it has done many times before, the oceans cooled and more CO2 from the atmosphere dissolved into the ocean and levels gradually returned to normal. A clear, clean explanation which demonstrates that CO2 increases in the atmosphere result from warming; they do not cause warming or amplify warming in any significant way.

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