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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sam Ferguson who wrote (42570)	6/28/1999 11:27:00 PM
From: Father Terrence	Respond to of 108807

As always, Sam's is the voice of Reason.

To: Sam Ferguson who wrote (42570)	6/29/1999 2:03:00 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

I would not let another human kill a child outside its mothers womb, I certainly won't actively support laws that kill children separated from your meaning of "life" but by one day, or one hour. If you cannot see that allowing the killing of a child in utero presents some pretty nasty questions for society - then we have nothing to say to each other. Although I find it personally repugnant I believe abortion should be available to the women who want it in the first three months. I say this NOT because I think it is "right" but because from a personal liberty point of view I think I can adjust to the rights of the mother overwhelming the child for that period when the fetus is clearly non-viable (but this period keeps sliding back- which I find disturbing). I can also say to myself that a bundle of cells or even a very small proto-human at 3 months is NOT the same as a living baby taking its first breath- I CANNOT say that about a 6 month fetus. The state has a right to prevent murder. Women who leave their babies to die in trash cans commit murder. That is a choice the state has a right to prevent- and punish. Women who swing their babies by their heels and bash their heads into walls commit murder- a murder the state has a right to prevent- and punish. Women who rip viable babies to death in their wombs also commit murder- of course it is state sanctioned murder but that does not mean we should be doing it- and the state certainly COULD find it has a right to prevent it. People DO make choices- lots of people make really bad choices. SOME choices are criminal choices and are punishable- murder is one of those choices. I find the same problem here I find with the gun issue. The extremists on both sides are outrageous. On the one hand the conservatives want no sperm to die, no egg to be lonely, and every pregnancy to terminate at birth (at which time most conservatives have no interest in the child until he or she is old enough to pray). On the other hand we have the liberals who want abortion available until delivery. A Very repugnant policy to most of us and these kinds of excesses serve as the best ammunition for the conservatives to push for the banning of abortion all together. The state HAS an interest in seeing people use abortion responsibly. We HAVE laws because people fail to act responsibly. We control all sorts of substances that go in the bodies of our populace (so called illegal drugs). I find this criminalization of drugs far more intrusive to personal liberty that the mediation by the state of the rights of the mother versus the rights of the child. At conception the balance clearly (for me anyway) favors the mother- but their is for me a point, an undeniable point, where abortion does become not just murder, but the equivalent to murdering an already born child.