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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Grainne who wrote (43240)	7/2/1999 11:52:00 PM
From: jpmac	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Kudos to an honest man and husband. <g>

To: Grainne who wrote (43240)	7/3/1999 1:21:00 AM
From: E	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

jpmac said: <<<It is still disconcerting to hear some I consider to be friends speak of women in the ugliest of terms for sexual behavior that they congratulate themselves on. >>> and you replied: <<<all kinds of men talk of women in this way. It doesn't have much to do with social class, income level,marital status, or anything else. I believe it is a male bonding ritual, actually. >>> My husband says this is simply not true. He says that in any group of men he's known, this would be regarded as boorish, rebarbative behavior. This was true in college, too, among his friends, he says. He remembers a particular friend who, in an all male group, said of one of the women students, a friend, whose last name was Hamburger, "I could eat Hamburger with relish," and who was looked at by the others contemptuously. He says they make sexual references, but nothing of the description jpmac gives. My husband socializes with men of all ages, because of the world he lives/works in. I just called my son and asked the same question, reading him jbe's comment about speaking of women in "the ugliest of terms," and he says the same thing as my husband does. He says the guys he knows, when in all male groups, will make sexual references to women, but not ugly or disrespect ones. He said, "that's a canard." I think men get accused of this sort of thing more than is fair. Obviously some do it, like the ones jp has talked about. No doubt among those who do this, there are representatives from all walks of life. But that's only some men, still. I'll bet your husband doesn't do it, or penni's. I'll bet I could name one man after another who posts on these threads who doesn't talk about women "in the ugliest of terms for behavior they congratulate themselves on." The thing is, it just isn't nice. So nice men won't do it. Maybe some men who read this thread would come on and say whether they, when in all male groups, speak of women "in the ugliest of terms for behavior they congratulate themselves on." I find the idea that this could be true of men I like and respect as I do so many who post here very distressing; and I find it equally distressing that this accusation could be being made unfairly, with no one taking exception because it might be awkward to claim innocence if everyone else says they do it. I have a son and a husband who don't do that, and whose friends don't, and I hope there are other men who don't, too, and will say so. It seems like a stereotypical sexist accusation to me, if it purports to describe all men.

To: Grainne who wrote (43240)	7/3/1999 2:10:00 AM
From: E	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

I just caught up on some posts i missed, and see from some references in them that you have said your husband isn't a participator in the ugly way of talking about women; and I think it is also implied that this is only some men, maybe a cross section, and is not meant to be a generalization about the way all men behave in male groups. Which relieves me. It seemed so unfair, if it was meant to be a blanket characterization of all male groups' behavior.