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Pastimes : SI Beta Site Launch - 7/01/99 -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Jeff Dryer who wrote (419)7/12/1999 9:07:00 AM
From: Caroline  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 2340
 
That was an extraordinarily well thought out post.

I'm glad I gave you the opportunity to speak about the Ignore function.

The fact is, I don't have a strong opinion about "ignore."

I was really only interested in knowing the connection between a person's ability to avoid an idiot and the US government's obligation to allow the assembly of citizens carrying signs.

My question was not worth answering, but your answer was worth hearing.

Who says I never offer positive feedback.

Ha!

Caroline



To: Jeff Dryer who wrote (419)7/12/1999 12:25:00 PM
From: V.  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 2340
 
RE: The "ignore" feature

Hi Jeff,

This issue is much more complicated than what many have been portrayed and this
was an outstanding post, Jeff. :) You have shown that there is a lot more to individuals
just ignoring an annoying poster than meets the eye.

You are absolutely right that there will be those who start posting to encourage others
on the thread to ignore particular posters. Yes, this would then 'augment' the bullish
experience and eliminate any opposing viewpoints or could be used to basically taunt
the bears by declaring that they have nothing to offer and are therefore being 'ignored'.
It could also encourage more personal attacks on the threads.

I would suggest that since one use of the ignore feature would be to limit one's
exposure to bullish/cheerleading posts, then there would presumably be less bickering
on the threads caused by those who cannot tolerate opposing viewpoints. After all,
though SI's intention was to facilitate the free exchange of ideas - both bullish and
bearish - it is each user's right to utilize the threads for whatever he wishes to gain from
them. Personally, I agree with you, Jeff, that an informed investor should thoughtfully
consider both sides of the coin when making investment decisions, but you can't force
people to be informed! <gg> People come to SI to fulfill different needs. Some are
here to engage in a pro/con discussion but others seem to want to ignore any
viewpoints which are in opposition to their own. Though we may not agree, it's their
right to wear blinders. <g>

I don't believe that the 'ignore' feature would discourage bears from posting as a user
would not know that he was being ignored unless people were to use the 'ignore'
feature to publicly taunt the ignored poster on the thread as you pointed out. A simple
solution to this problem then would be to institute the ignore feature with the warning
that it is to augment the individual's experience on SI and not to be used to publicly
taunt posters and infractions of this code could be reported via pmail to Admin just like
other member complaints.

Sure, V., sure... like anyone would heed that warning, you ask? You think that Admin
needs a new feature instituted which would encourage MORE complaints/whiners/fist
fights on the SI playground? :)

Well, I'm glad you asked. ;)

A a firmer stance would simply be to have a prompt which states, "By opting to use the
ignore feature, I have read SI's guidelines on its misuse, and agree to follow these
guidelines or else be subjected to suspension as per the SI ToU guidelines. Click 'Yes,
I agree' to enable the ignore feature, or click 'No I do not agree' and the ignore feature
will not be enabled on this account."

The freedom of speechers out there wouldn't like this restriction of course, but they
don't even like the Terms Of Use. You can't please 'em all, unfortunately. However,
SI's T o U are clear on SI having sole and final discretion on such matters and those
who voluntarily post on the site agree to follow these guidelines or face the
consequences. Those who choose to violate the Terms of Use can go to another site
where free-for-alls and vicious public attacks are permissible or they can simply
choose NOT to enable the 'ignore' feature and limit their freedom of speech! :)

So, though you might have some reports to Admin initially of members taunting one
another on the threads when they enable the 'ignore' feature which could be handled
like any other ToA violation as I outlined above, wouldn't it eliminate many more
thread disputes and reports of violations to Admin due to bickering amongst users in
the longer term? It seems that, by and large, the 'ignore' feature would probably be elected silently by
the majority of those wishing to eliminate certain posts from their view. This pertains
primarily to those users who want the 'ignore' function in order to rid themselves of
obnoxious or off topic posts which are constantly generated by particular members.
This would also reduce complaints to SI Admin regarding, "He's attacking me again!"
as (chosen) ignorance (via the 'ignore' feature) would be bliss!

My comments above are based on the assumption that the vast majority of SI
members are good people who are not antagonistic and really are here to learn about
the market rather than to annoy fellow posters, btw...

And if I might make one more comment: Personally, I don't see the need for an 'ignore'
feature as I simply elect not to read posts from particular people. I enable my own
'ignore' function, I guess. <gg> With the new capability of downloading 10 posts at a
time as unveiled on the Beta site, it is far easier to scan the posts for content and/or
users and simply overlook posters who have historically been offensive or which offer
little in terms of content. This is of course a big issue insofar as it is so subjective. What
is useful and valid to one member might be totally off topic to another. Some have no
use in reading bickering, while others learn a lot from it and/or find it extremely
entertaining! :) However, since this feature has been requested by so many users, I
would not be opposed to it at all if it makes others' SI experience a more pleasant one.
Having the ability to turn it on or off would really eliminate the need to debate the issue
further, IMO.

Thank you for listening to us! It's not an easy job, I know! :)



To: Jeff Dryer who wrote (419)7/12/1999 11:27:00 PM
From: John Biddle  Respond to of 2340
 
I believe an ignore feature would make the bullish slant of many threads even worse... be used by many members to discourage people with negative comments from posting.

While I do not presume to know how the ignore feature would be used by SI members, I do have two pieces of "evidence" to help me make a guess.

1. I have BrowseMaster and I use the ignore feature. I have only "ignored" a few posters and have never mentioned to them or anyone else that I had done so. Since my reason for ignoring was to avoid what I saw to be worthless blather, it would have been counter-productive to contribute to the blather myself.

2. Others have BrowseMaster also, and the only mention of "ignore" I remember seeing was when someone was complaining on a thread about the worthless posts of another. A BrowseMaster user would say something like "I use BrowseMaster and it enables me to ignore people like that, You should try it, it's great!" Now I'll grant you that since SI doesn't have ignore, this poster (or others) didn't have the opportunity to encourage everyone to specifically ignore a particular poster, but they could have encouraged users to get BM so they could do so and I don't remember anyone ever doing so.

Also, since this is a beta, we have an opportunity to test an ignore feature rather than guess how it would be used.

I believe that a primary use of an ignore feature would be to use it as a tool to ignore bearish viewpoints and to let everyone on the thread and the bearish poster (often only one) know that the bear is being ignored with the hope of driving the bear away.

Why do you believe this? Everyone has the ability to skip past posts from a particular person, but I don't hear a hew and cry from bulls to get everyone to skip bears posts. I'm sure that some people would use an ignore feature to read only what they wanted to read. Do you think that's any different than what they do now? Do you think they continue to read with an open mind posts from people they consider beneath contempt for being bearish, or, God forbid, short?

I agree that most posters are positive, but at least on the threads I frequent, there is little support for the bear baiting you describe. When it happens, and it does, that someone jumps all over a negative poster, that negative poster is typically supported by those interested in hearing both sides. This usually causes the bear baiter to quit, or at least back off somewhat. If a poster is a negative hypester, coming on strong with post after post on how XYZ is a bloated pig and due for a 30% fall, without ever giving reasons for his/her beliefs, then when the brear baiting begins, nobody comes to the negative poster's defense.

Of the two negative posters described above, I think a few would ignore the first, and very few would encourage others to do so. I agree that the second would be ignored by many, and might generate some of the encouragement to get everyone to ignore him that you seem to fear. I think this would be mitigated by others reminding the encourager that he's becoming a bore and is being hypocritical and is himself in danger of being ignored if he keeps it up.

I think ignore kind of polices itself. The catfights that break out occasionally on some threads and all too often on others would be greatly diminished by the fact that the posts that drive one crazy will now go unseen and therefore not draw return fire.

And in answer to those who say "I don't need "Ignore", I just press "Next", I say great. But the fact that you wouldn't find a feature useful is not a reason not to put it in, so long as its inclusion does you no harm.

In general, I worry about the abuse of an ignore feature by SI members who have other agendas other than discovering the truth. For example, the under $5 area is a particular worry where often times non-reporting OTC BB companies have no operations at all, and there are lots of bullish opinions being posted for everyone's consumption. Someone (a bear) gets on the thread and tells the negative truth and then all hell breaks loose and we get flooded with emails demanding that SI have an ignore feature.

In this environment, where by your own admission stock hyping is already going on, and you're not doing anything about it, why are you worried that ignore will make it worse? I believe that if someone wanted to ignore the negative poster, he would no longer see that poster's messages (unless they were addressed specifically to him because then I believe that should over-ride ignore) and therefore wouldn't feel the need to encourage others to ignore. That kind of obvious hypocritical behavior would encourage me to ignore him, not the negative poster.

And now on to your belief in how markets work.

Like many SI members, I also believe HYPE creates value. Therefore, it makes sense to HYPE (and only focus on the positive) and squelch the bears. So, it's really a question of truth seeking or hyping. There's probably merit to both investing approaches/activities.

I hope you don't really believe this. Hype may indeed, in some circumstances, be able to raise the short term price of a stock, but I don't for one second believe that it creates 1½ worth of value. Companies create value by creating good products, or cheaper or faster or prettier or more desireable products, or by becoming more efficient or using a better distribution system or a million other things that make the company stronger and better able to make money. Both today and into the future. A rumor can make a stock price move too, but you wouldn't call that value, would you?

Let's see, you think there's merit to both truth seeking and hyping and can't seem to decide which approach to use. I hope your thoughts on programming this beta are less muddled. My God, man, are you PC that you see value in everything that's said, just because someone said it? It's a fool who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.