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Strategies & Market Trends : DAYTRADING Fundamentals -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Paul Viapiano who wrote (1821)7/13/1999 1:25:00 AM
From: -  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 18137
 
Definitely. The notion of a "daytrader" has now been associated firmly in the public mind as a bunch of corrupt, gambling, really video-gaming, irresponsible 20-somethings. Not too flattering, huh? Thanks once again to our free press -- free from really looking into something very seriously before they aggressively spew the NASD line, and set the national opinion about it!

When I first switched seriously from investing into trading, 6-7 years ago, this was not a problem. Most of the traders I met were commodity traders - I was something of an oddity as a stock trader.

Even here in progressive Silicon Valley the notion of "trading" (vs. investing) is widely looked down on, judged pretty negatively for the most part. I usually keep it a secret (and I write on TigerInvestor under a pseudonem for now...)

Of course, the enjoyment of doing something challenging that you enjoy, and the bucks make up for that...

-Steve



To: Paul Viapiano who wrote (1821)7/13/1999 1:30:00 AM
From: Raymond Duray  Respond to of 18137
 
Hi Paul,

I'm proud of what I do for a living and when people ask me what I do, I tell them that "I read for a living." I get the best stares! If they don't end up tongue tied I go on to explain that I am researching how the world works and will work in the near future and I'm placing a few bets on the outcome. By this time, generally, they stop pestering me.

I particularly like the ones who say the stock market is not a "righteous" place. You can really wind up these religious corkscrews. <vbg>

Ciao, Ray



To: Paul Viapiano who wrote (1821)7/13/1999 2:08:00 AM
From: RC Stein  Respond to of 18137
 
Paul I've had the same problem with folks asking what I do for a living. If I know them, or think they are really interested, or would really understand, then I explain that I'm not really a day trader(thats always their next question), but more of a swing/momentum investor. If I don't really know them and/or can tell its just idle conversation, I tell them I own rental property. Thats such a boring subject, that the conversation usually ends there.



To: Paul Viapiano who wrote (1821)7/13/1999 3:48:00 AM
From: TheKelster  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 18137
 
What I do for a living I don't even want to talk about.

When I first began trading I had so much fun. It did not matter whether I was making money or losing money. Trading was the career I had been searching for my entire life. I was on a year long high, a non-stop honeymoon, permanent orbit. I thought everyone ought to give this a try and I told them so.

Today I feel exactly the same about trading. I still haven't come back down. BUT, I have learned that most folks either think you are nuts, a gambler, or they have no comprehension of what you are doing. Most actually fall in the last category.

The general public, the "educated put something aside for the future 401K group", which includes the vast majority of the "investing" public equates being in the stock market with owning a mutual fund.

When people ask, my wife loves to say "He trades the market". The general reply that follows is, "So you are a broker". "No", I say, "I just invest." "OH". I see a big thought circle above their heads filled with mutual funds and I let the subject die right there.

Think about the questions that newbies ask. These are folks that have some amount of money. They have read at least enough to know that if they make the calls themselves it's not mutual funds. They have to put the money in some "account" somewhere and somehow get someone to exchange it for "stocks". Some are far better read and educated than that. Yet even though they know a lot of the buzzwords they don't even begin to understand trading (and most are smart enough to know this). Thus, they look for others with experience to begin to really explain trading to them.

Now imagine a person is who checks off a few boxes at work and has his/her entire retirement invested in a 401K earning 5-6% a year, impossible for them to have even the faintest idea what we do. Even more impossible to try to explain.

If a person is not in the world of trading, unless they just twist my arm off and hound me relentlessly, I will not even discuss the subject of trading. :-D

KK



To: Paul Viapiano who wrote (1821)7/13/1999 9:44:00 AM
From: marketbrief.com  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 18137
 
Paul, the two big problems I've encountered when people discover I trade for a living are: they don't understand what the market is or how it works, let alone how I operate day to day within it; and if they do understand the market, they are extremely envious. So it's a lose lose situation: the ignorant don't understand, and the knowledgable envy you.... Talk about the weather instead. ;-)

~Smart$



To: Paul Viapiano who wrote (1821)7/13/1999 6:34:00 PM
From: JB2  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 18137
 
<Do you hesitate to say "I'm a trader?">
I do. Every since I read the book, "Your Money or Your
Life" by Joe Dominquez in 1992, I have been self-employed managing my own money. Believe me, real estate investor does not have any better connotations in the public mind
than stock trader. The classic hated professions, like
attorney, car dealer, and contractor, are at least well
understood by the public. Unfortunately the underpaid
ratpack of journalists are corrupting the term
"daytrader" with their knee jerk bias, lining up article after article, on the side of the Wall Street
establishment.

Very few people outside of NYC have ever met any
traders, since until the 90's, most traders were floor
traders at an exchange somewhere. So their only source of reference is from recent news. It would probably be good
for us all, if instead of keeping quiet, more traders
would take the time to try and explain it to the curious
uninformed. Because, when you think about it, many
people cook,for example, or garden, or paint, or invest; but when identifying their occupation they do not say "I am a cook, or "I am an investor", etc.


People don't understand how you make your money, when you say you trade, or invest, "for a living". They either
assume you do nothing and live off investment income
(hence the envy) or they have lost money in the real
estate and stock markets and think it is impossible to
profit (hence the disbelief).

The tax structure being what it is in this country, very
few people derive wealth from it being passed down thru
the family. Even the average trust fund baby, by the time they are in their 20's, can afford to pay off college
expenses, get a car and a condo, or down payment on a
house, and then still have to find a paying occupation.
Only if they learn to make money grow, will they be able
to live off their inheritance. The daughter of one of the
founders of H & R Block, Barbara Stanny, wrote an
excellent little book last year, about her struggles
learning to use her money. Phylis Chesler is quoted in
her book: "Only the powerless live in a money culture and know nothing about money." This describes the majority of Americans.

Allen Cymrot, author of "Street Smart Real Estate
Investing" (1993), puts it this way: "Some of your
smartest, best educated friends never catch on to the
rules of the game. They live in a capitalist society, but they never learn to live as capitalists. Instead they
live under constant financial stress, forever frustrated
by their inability to improve the quality of their lives. And all because they do not know the name or rules of the game."

"When you're on the football field, you play football,"
Cymrot says, "And in a capitalist society you should seek to live like a capitalist."

Another factor hindering public acceptance of traders can be described by Douglas Hofstadter: "Innumeracy---the
mathematical counterpart of illiteracy---is a disease
that has ravaged technological society." Most
journalists have avoided math classes, so cannot
distinguish the difference between the odds against a
casino gambler, and the odds against a stock trader
taking calculated risks.

What differentiates today's daytrader from the average
American is instead of just fearing the unknown, the
trader is taking the chance and the risk, to learn
firsthand, just what you can do with a pc and some start
up capital. This is a business, just like any other, only it requires "No clients, No deadlines, No suits, No
product lines." No wonder hardly anyone understands
it!