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Gold/Mining/Energy : Global Thermoelectric - SOFC Fuel cells (GLE:TSE) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Grant MacMillan who wrote (2861)	8/3/1999 10:14:00 PM
From: Dingo	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 6016

GM, You mentioned Global Fuel cells produce H as byproduct. From what I read, BMW was planning on using internal combustion engines that run on hydrogen. The obvious question is, do fuel cells produce enough H and at a sufficient rate to feed an engine ? Or, at the very least, supplement the fuel tank ? If this is the case (I'm really stretching this) SOFCs produce electricity to run all accessories and the byproduct runs the motor to make the vehicle go varoom ! There is no need for a H vending infrastructure nor concern over safety in storing H. All the required H will be produced and consumed within the same system without accumulating dangerous levels. But hey, what do I know ? Dingo.

To: Grant MacMillan who wrote (2861)	8/7/1999 12:05:00 PM
From: CH4	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 6016

Excellent critique by an unbiased learned electro-chemist .In the spirit of public education the following story was written by a world renown journalist. (excerpted Chicago Tribune archives) WILL CARS POWERED BY HYDROGEN BOMB? Jim Mateja, Auto writer. Published: Thursday, March 25, 1999 Section: CARS Page: 1 It's 2004, and the motorist cruising home notices the fuel needle teetering on "empty." He pulls his DaimlerChryslerMitsubishiHyundaiKiaHondaBMW into the filling station, shoves the nozzle into his tank and starts pumping. But he has forgotten his insulated gloves, and the 400-degree-below-zero fuel spills on his hands. Three fingers freeze, break off and shatter on the pavement. Just another day in the life of motorists in the time of zero-emission cars that burn super-clean, though super-cold hydrogen, to produce electric power. As the digitally deficient motorist stares his scattered finger parts, a few drops of water, the only byproduct of hydrogen combustion, drip out the exhaust pipe of his vehicle. Hydrogen is so clean that designer tap water, at $2 a bottle, has given way to vacuum-wrapped recycled hydrogen exhaust at $10 per ounce. Environmentalists are happy now--at least those who have learned to work their laptops with only seven fingers. That scenario is still five years away, and though DaimlerChrysler, known as Chrysler before German lessons replaced coffee breaks, deserves kudos for announcing last week that it has developed a hydrogen fuel-cell car that will be built for 2004, a few problems need be resolved: - Hydrogen is stored at about 400 degrees below zero Fahrenheit. If you could spill a glass of water from waist level at that temperature, it would freeze before it hit the ground. Cigarette smokers at the gasoline pump bother you? Wait till you pump 400-degree-below-zero fuel and risk having your fingers bounce off your shoes. - The gas-burning engine cost about $3,000; a hydrogen fuel cell costs about $30,000. A hydrogen-powered Dodge Neon would run $50,000. - To offset the cost, hydrogen initially will be offered in teeny tiny cars such as the A-Class Mercedes, now sold only in Europe. It boasts seating for five--if they are piled vertically. - Think a tailgater is irritating when he follows too close to a car carrying 20 gallons of gas in 1999? Wait until 2004 when your car is filled with a substance most people equate with a device let loose by President Harry Truman called the hydrogen bomb. Get rear-ended in a hydrogen car on the Kennedy and not only do you eliminate the Ogden Avenue ramp, you also erase the south side of Milwaukee. - Worse than tailgaters, terrorists will need only visit the showroom to buy or lease a hydrogen car. Hmm. Do terrorists wait for rebates? Confused? So are we. For years the auto industry has talked about battery cars with zero emissions. But one roadblock was the lack of a 220-volt socket for a quick eight-hour recharge on every corner, like gas stations. If making 220-volt outlets available for battery cars was cost prohibitive, how much cheaper can it be to install hydrogen bomb--oops, fuel--stations with their 400-degree-below tanks on every corner? But, Chrysler says, hydrogen A-Class cars can get 60 m.p.g. and the fuel costs only about 6 cents a mile versus 4 cents a mile for gas. And a tank can be filled with hydrogen as quickly as it can with gas. When last we looked, however, there were no hydrogen filling stations on any corner. One is planned at the Munich Airport in Germany, but that's a little out of the way for a Chicago motorist. To make hydrogen practical, DaimlerChrysler says motorists could fill their cars with methanol or gasoline and, by burning that fuel, produce hydrogen in an on-board cell. Then they would burn the hydrogen to produce the electricity to power your car. But doesn't methanol or gasoline rule out zero emissions, which is the reason to ask folks to spend $50,000 for a Neon? It looks as though the auto industry is going to have to hire a spin doctor for hydrogen in cars. Wonder if the public relations guy for the Hindenburg is available?