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Pastimes : The Truth about Waco -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: MikeH who wrote (45)	8/27/1999 9:25:00 PM
From: MSB	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1449

I'd appreciate a little enlightenment regarding: And then you also have to address the bad apples. I would be a liar to claim that there are not crazies in the survivalist and militia movements. But most of these are solitary individuals. That wack that shot the two guards at congress comes to mind. Now was that "wack" a survivalist or a militia member? Robert - "Do you really feel that these fringe groups, who stockpile weapons of war and preach hatred and violence are safe?" Your reply - Sure, what is so dangerous about them. Have you spoken with one?[Do you mean a group or individual?] I have. Thay are just as dangerous as the Mormons, do the Mormons keep you up at night? I know an individual who is both a survivalist and militia sympathyzer, which should come as no surprise since he is a gun owner and avid hunter. He, along with his son and another fellow, bring their guns into their place of employment. BTW, would you like to take a wild guess at to what he feels will inevitably start the next civil war? Just for the sake of curiosity, I'd like to know how many of you responding positively to the government's position as being wrong in the "Waco" incident also own guns. If a majority do own guns, what are the chances it is simply a coincidence? Mike (Screw the spelling errors)

To: MikeH who wrote (45)	8/30/1999 6:18:00 AM
From: FrozenZ	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1449

First of all the Clinton/Reno blame in this is flat out wrong. It is simply a case of weak leadership being steamrolled by the FBI and other agencies with their own agendas, and has nothing to do with malevolence. Do you remember the information the ATF/FBI gave all of us including Janet at the time: "Koresh is a dangerous child molester. Each hour that goes by means further sexual abuse of these children by this rabid monster with his bizarre sexual fetishes." How do you think Janet Reno is going to react, being a fanatic about children's issues? I totally agree that for some reason the ATF/FBI did not want those buildings to remain standing for an investigation afterward. Let's just run down the list regarding our constitution. Freedom from unreasonable searches. Kind of depends on how you define unreasonable doesn't it. I mean anyone may be carrying drugs and anyone who doesn't appear straight/establishment is searched at the drop of a hat everywhere in this country. Right to due process. Anyone suspected of profiting from drugs has their property confiscated on the spot. Drugs are so easy to plant too. Let's just say anyone we don't like can have their property confiscated. Freedom of speech. We can get you for that by calling it obscene, but why even bother when its so much easier to put you up on drug charges. Right to bear arms. Oh right, its the guns fault. Has nothing to do with a basic flaw in our institutions causing us to turn out huge numbers of unbalanced individuals whose parents both worked and they hardly knew. Has anyone else noticed the one common denominator to virtually all of these school and other mass killings, namely they were all done by men or boys suffering from having been dumped by their girlfriends. It is my contention that the male mind has a tendency to become unhinged by being dumped by their sex partner. Too bad there's no money for counseling, it has to be spent on more prisons and police. Constitutional freedoms are only as good as the power mad individuals who manage to grab control and interpret them. Ask the pre-civil war slaves about the constitution. Now the analogy about gradually boiling a frog so he doesn't jump out of the pot is what happened. Well it's 1999 and the frog is dead. Let's face it the constitution always was a joke because the only freedom in this world is financial freedom. Actually the only real freedom is psychological freedom. Freedom from the aberrated life of unsatisfied cravings.