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Pastimes : The Truth about Waco -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: MSB who wrote (162)	8/30/1999 5:05:00 AM
From: James F. Hopkins	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1449

Hi Mike; On a local level is where most of us deal with law officers and I believe the quality and attitude of the local Law officer can change a lot from place to place , sometimes you don't have to move very far either. Very often it's shaped to a large degree by the community itself, even in large cities certain areas are subject to wind up with officers who have to be bullies , while other areas in the same city will have the cream of the crop. ------------ It's not a job I would want, but the attitude I was taught was one of respect, and I think at times it can be our own attitude taht brings out the best or worse in another person. Take areas that have high crime and dope and an attitude that all law officers are "pigs" well they will then most often wind up with pigs. ---------- I'm sure David's arrogance helped cause him to be a lighting rod that in it's own way attracted some of the worse the ATF had to offer. ------------ Going beyond that and I don't know how to word it, but I'm beginning to get a picture which of the upper end seems to be a hegemonic (clandestine ? ) CIA , ATF connection in the making, and if the CIA honchos can use the ATF as a domestic arm to reach beyond the limits put on them , then we need to be concerned. ------------ The ATF & military connection is also not healthy, if we keep going we better look at where the momentum of this can take us. I've been reading some CIA stuff ( not written by their critics but by them ) and a lot of it is alarming. As I look at history I see foot prints of inner circles in many areas, more than I know how to paint, for example I'm convinced there was a secret inner circle in the SS that even Hitler didn't know about, and within that inner circle were men even more demonic than him. ----------- Back to Waco, history rarely offers simple events and clear motivations, so much happens by reaction to other events that it may never be completely clear how The Dividians came to be so demonized and the lighting rod to attract and to be attacked by some of the worst forces of legal evil in our society. I was aware early on that Military was used and illegally, but I had no idea of the extent. While I don't think there was some sinister plan and conspiracy to use these people as guinea pigs , or for big bad government to test the waters as to how far they could go, I do think some of that evolved via certain people who saw no reason not to exploit the situation. ( including Clinton who tried his best to get political mileage out of it .. was at that point I turned on him, prior to that I supported him, hell early on I use to use to point at Reno on the TV when my young daughter came in the room and use her as an Icon of how great a women could be in this nation ) Today I would not even spit on Reno if she was on fire. She is saying she is angry because she was lied to, well I'm angry too and it's for her lieing to me. She said her responsibility to the public was a sacred trust, well she has turned that trust into a sacrilegious betrayal. It's was her job to investigate this atrocity not defend it, you would think she was the privet defense attorney for the ATF & FBI, hell she is supposed to be the nations chief prosecutor what in the hell is she doing playing the role of defense attorney , can we impeach a screwed up Attorney General ? I'm now convinced some so called Military observers clandestinely did more than observe, they made use of the Waco episode for some experimental tactics. That they would do this knowing children were in there is even more despicable, I just don't have the words to express my disgust for those types. I say this with great reluctance as in saying it , it also now means I could never sit on a Jury to convict the SOBs. Jim

To: MSB who wrote (162)	8/30/1999 5:57:00 AM
From: James F. Hopkins	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1449

More On Waco; Damm sometimes I get long winded. Many episodes transpired within the larger one, and I don't want to forget that some one needs to investigate why, and how those particular 3 agents who went into that window were selected for the job and this needs to be investigated in depth not just some testimony from the bosses who sent them to their death. I have reason to suspect they knew to much about a previous dope deal that the upper echelon were in on with the CIA. I'm beginning to see a CIA , ATF connection, the ATF seems to have to many "guardian angles" in high places. The FBI was forced into taking the heat off them, and wound up getting pushed into sh*t up to their eyelids. The action of that Roof Man was caught on tape and demands an answer. I also have now got word that 4 tapes were made of the attack ( but kept from the public ) the public has as much more right to see those tapes in their entirety as they did the Nixon tapes. I'm sure any reasonable person who could see the tapes I have would be aghast at just the shear amount of indiscriminate automatic fire power the BTAF unleashed at that building it was horrific, and they didn't let up until they ran out of ammo. None of the major news media has shown even half of the attack that they have, because they are cowards when it comes to things like this. David gave the ATF a cease fire long before the ATF stopped shooting, and the ATF after funning out of ammo became at Davids mercy. He let them retreat safely and even let them come in and get their wounded and dead. Had he been the hard core villain they made him out to be he could and would have counter attacked and destroyed that entire unit, their own insolence and over kill tactics wound up putting them totally at his mercy. I mean he could have killed or taken every damm one of them hostage, every single one except those in the helicopters, hell there is a good chance he could have shot them down if he wanted to. After the cease fire there had to be much confusion inside the building and the ATF took that opportunity to whisk away a dead child "they had shot" like he was a rag doll, and that was also kept out of the publics eye. How do I know it was their bullet that killed him, well believe me if it had not been their bullet it would have been all over the news. Last lets don't forget at least 18 of the ATF agents filed suits against their own Agency. Jim