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Pastimes : The Truth about Waco -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: C Kahn who wrote (574)	9/5/1999 2:09:00 AM
From: gao seng	Respond to of 1449

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Clinton said Saturday that he had confidence in Attorney General Janet Reno but pointedly avoided saying the same for the head of the FBI, which is accused of lying about a deadly 1993 siege. ''I certainly have confidence in the attorney general,'' Clinton said during a news conference at the presidential retreat at Camp David, Maryland. ''I support the attorney general's decision to seek an independent investigation'' of the siege of the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas, six years ago, Clinton said. The religious sect's leader, David Koresh, and about 80 of his followers were burned to death in the assault. ''We ought to see what the investigation turns up,'' Clinton said. Asked if he also had confidence in FBI Director Louis Freeh, the president replied, ''I think he did the right thing in saying he thought there ought to be an independent investigation, and I think that that's all we can ask of him.'' Earlier this week, after denying for six years that pyrotechnic devices had been used in the Waco attack, the FBI said it had found two videotapes showing that heat-generating military tear gas canisters had been employed. The agency emphasized, however, that the fatal Waco fire occurred hours later in another part of the complex. The Branch Davidian incident -- a cause celebre for conspiracy theorists -- returned to the front page after the Dallas Morning News uncovered evidence of the military canisters' use from a Texas lawsuit. ''Over the past two weeks, I, along with many Americans, have been troubled, very troubled, over what has transpired,'' Reno said Thursday at a news conference dominated by questions about the FBI's new account of its actions. Under pressure from both Republicans and Democrats in Congress, Reno has said she wants an outsider to head an independent investigation to ''get to the truth'' about the siege. The White House, which has supported Reno throughout the controversy, had previously been silent about the FBI. -- more misdirection. There is a case going on right now in Texas against the federal government. All evidence should be turned over to this court so that a fair hearing can be held.

To: C Kahn who wrote (574)	9/5/1999 2:12:00 AM
From: gao seng	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1449

Former FBI Spokesman Faults Reno For Waco Silence Full Coverage Waco Investigation OKLAHOMA CITY (Reuters) - A former FBI spokesman was quoted Saturday as saying he had urged Attorney General Janet Reno to allow publication of more information about the standoff with the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas, but she had rejected the idea. The Daily Oklahoman newspaper quoted Bob Ricks, who now heads Oklahoma's highway patrol, as saying he told Reno during a conference in 1994 that Justice Department rules requiring FBI agents to remain silent about the standoff were causing credibility problems for the agency in the Midwest. ''I said, ''You probably don't realize it, but in the Midwest, Waco is still an extremely big deal out here, and it's the subject of much conversation,'' Ricks told the paper. Ricks said he told Reno he didn't like rules preventing more open discussion of the ill-fated siege and that their silence ''could ultimately end up being a problem.'' Ricks told the paper that Reno had responded: ''I don't think the American people care about Waco anymore.'' The report added that a Justice Department spokesman denied Reno had made the comment. ''I think the government could have done a much better job in providing full disclosure,'' Ricks told the Oklahoman. Ricks said his conversation with Reno took place about a year after the 51-day siege at Waco, in which cult leader David Koresh and more than 80 people died after a disastrous assault by agents on the group's compound. Minutes after the raid was launched, the buildings erupted in flames and burned to the ground, killing most inside. Ricks was the primary spokesman for the FBI during the siege. Investigation following the incident indicated the fires were set by cult members inside the compound, not by agents. Later statements by the FBI and the Justice Department claimed no incendiary devices were used in the assault. The agency recently reversed this stance after recent revelations by former agents and taped evidence showed incendiary tear gas canisters were used by the FBI during the assault. Ricks told the paper that Justice Department rules also prevented the FBI from conducting its own investigation following the siege, called an ''after-action critique,'' which would have examined the successes and failures of the action. -- Reno is no scapegoat just because she looks like one.

To: C Kahn who wrote (574)	9/5/1999 2:13:00 AM
From: gao seng	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1449

To heck with it, just too many news stories to respond too. fullcoverage.yahoo.com

To: C Kahn who wrote (574)	9/5/1999 12:33:00 PM
From: James F. Hopkins	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1449

C Kahn; Thanks, I have done a lot of research so much so that with out a review I'm subject to make some mistakes by simple transposition, it's easy to do. I backed off some of my early positions as time went on, and just about resigned myself to saying the best I could do was to support some sort of Memorial to all the lives lost there. As a Nation I don't think we can sweep it under the rug and not repeat the same mistake. Besides the lives lost, the collateral damage to our image as a Nation while impossible to measure is no small thing, and if not cleaned up properly will result in us having complicity ( one step removed) but it's enough that we can't ( or at least I can't say ) we won't share a degree of responsibility to many more miscarriages of justice. Complicity in the deaths of many more innocent people than died at Waco will be the result of Waco, if we don't take this down to the bare metal and show that we are accountable it will be the excuse used over and over again by dictators large and small who think the goal justifies the means. ------------------- I feel odd using so many words to try and make my position clear and still not say much about Waco, but I'm still concerned about myself having any complicity in tossing oil on a fire that appears already out of control. As an old boat Captain I may can use an allegory that does this Say I have a nice boat and it's well painted and the pride of the fleet as well as her crew. In the normal course of events Boats rust a lot and require a good deal of on going maintenance, So I get a sizable rust spot that every one in the Harbor can see, that rust spot will stand out like a sore thumb, other Captains well say look at Jims boat it's rusty ha ha ha. Now I don't need to paint the whole boat, but I can't just paint over the rust either, I have to take that part down to the bear metal and do the job right, or under the surface my painting over the rust does more harm than good. ------------------ Well tahts enough of my posturing for now. Before I get into much more of what happened at Waco I think I need to do a inventory of what I have. here is a link. fullcoverage.yahoo.com Whats happening right now in regards to Waco does concern me. There is so much misinformation in the news that it makes it difficult for any one who is not very discerning to pick out what's credible or not. I see news commentators on the major networks that I can tell never did a damm drop of research, but just grabbed up some one else's copy and started off with Monday quarter backing based on the copy they are reading that is a copy of some other copy that was just stuck together in a rush to meet a deadline. In short most of the Major net works have commentators who actually know less about Waco than you say you do, and they are talking as if they are authorities on the subject , Look at this, it's a sublink from that same link above thesmokinggun.com They are calling that a warrant that was executed, I don't think they intended for that to be a farce it's ignorant of what a warrant is, and some one who is obsessed with saying something with very little regard for facts. The news media as well as the internet is getting overloaded with so called experts who are just tossing out any kind of garbage. ---------------- (1) Look out for the word ( cult ) when it comes to the Dividians, they know very little and likely never even looked at the court transcripts. The word cult was disallowed in court by a Judge who you can tell was sympathetic to the ATF it's such a stretch that I would give very little credence to articles that have it, they just didn't do their home work or are still trying to spin the facts. (2) Other words and innuendo's ruled out by the court, "compound" and "watch tower" none of them fit the facts. (3) Now we have a new one "bunker" , there was no bunker in the sense the ATF/FBI would like people to believe, not even remotely. ---------- New allegations are coming out now some of them are very unsettling, but before I get into them I want to see some collaboration from more than one source. ---------- Waco is in the History Books now, just how the chapter will be written is still a work in progress but I will have a part in the writing that stands the test of time. It will be talked about and likely debated a hundred years from now or longer if we don't self distruct. Jim ---------------