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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (72028)9/16/1999 3:01:00 PM
From: tejek  Respond to of 1573088
 
Tenchusatsu

RE <<<I'll know it's a virtual "Pwivate Thwead" (tm PREngel) that doesn't concern me.>>>

So you're the 'da wabbit'....I knew he had to be around here somewhere.

ted



To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (72028)9/16/1999 3:01:00 PM
From: vince doran  Read Replies (5) | Respond to of 1573088
 
Charles, Kap, Ten, and any others for whom this is an investment rather than a religion, a few questions:

When do you think Athlon mobos supporting AGP4x will be available? I ask because I think the new Nvidia GeForce graphics chip is going to be a driver for gamer purchasing decisions this Xmas as well as a powerful avdertising point for system ads (the specs are awesome compared to the current generation.) VIAs chipset for Athlon supports 4x.

With pretty certain CUmine 733 MHz selling in Oct. and assuming the rumoured 700 MHz Athlon is selling in quant then, Intel will be able to reclaim (by a nose) the MHz crown for the Xmas season, while the benchmarks will still probably favor Athlon by 5-15%. In the public's mind, ties go to the incumbent champ. In that situation, do you think there will be sufficient demand for Athlon 700s (for whatever reason, anti-Intel sentiment, desire for higher FPU perf, higher cost or slower perf of Intel sys due to Rambus, whatever) to allow AMD to sell 1M Aths at $300 asps?

Do you think the reported Rambus problems are something Intel thinks will be fixed by CUmine intro, or that they are hoping simply to bull the change through problems and all? (Blow the horn on the high mem MHz and ignore the probs?) Or is it possible they can come up with a last-minute way to avoid Rambus and still ship CUmine?

Assuming a neck-and-neck MHz race through the end of the year, do you think AMD can sell enough Aths for enough asp to reach profitability by early 2000?

I am long AMD at 17 7/16s (having sold INTC at 67 to shift) because the upside/downside potential is much greater, however, I don't think AMD has a long window here. I don't assume that Intel is incapable of getting it in gear, so for my purposes, I assume Willamette will arrive in summer 2000 and will be faster than the current Ath design. Thus to expand my current bet I must feel confident that AMD can reach profitability and capture significant public mindshare as an equally good high-perf supplier by spring. Do you think they can meet that challenge? I would include the assumption that Process Boy is correct and CUmine will stay close in the MHz race.

Having read your posts for a month or so, I know what your inclinations and piecemeal evaluations are, and respect the effort you all have put into your analysis, so I would very much like to see your thoughts on these questions.

There is no doubt that AMD presents a compelling risk/reward picture given its net asset value and valuation relative to INTCs, however, the reward side of the analysis depends on its ability to actually show promise of capturing some of INTCs monopoly profits (the sum of which will certainly decrease if AMD makes it a real horse race.)

Awaiting your thoughts,
Vince



To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (72028)9/16/1999 9:02:00 PM
From: kash johal  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1573088
 
Tench,

How come nobody's gonna have Rambus PC's to go at the Camino launch on 9/27?

Now PCs will be available within 30 days of launch.

Is Intel learning some bad tricks from AMD:

Rambus PCs will lag behind debut of memory system
By Stephen Shankland
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
September 16, 1999, 1:20 p.m. PT
Intel soon will unveil new hardware that uses Rambus memory, but some major PC manufacturers won't offer upgraded systems until October.

Intel is scheduled to debut its chipset that supports Rambus on September 27. However, companies such as Dell and Hewlett-Packard apparently will not have systems ready for several weeks. Typically, PC manufacturers have products in the pipeline when an eagerly anticipated technology is first released.

The lag is another bump in the road for Rambus. Intel, the biggest backer of the next-generation memory, has already delayed the chipset, pushing it back from June to September. In addition, memory manufacturers have complained about the high costs of manufacturing the memory chips.

"Basically, Intel is conceding that some [computer manufacturers] aren't going to be shipping systems," said Peter Glaskowsky, an analyst with MicroDesign Resources. One reason for the delay could be that manufacturers want to wait for the debut in October of Intel's new Coppermine CPU, he added.

Intel has anointed Rambus as the next-generation memory technology to replace the current standard, called SDRAM. Largely on the basis of Intel's support, Rambus shares have risen to give the company a market capitalization of more than $2 billion.

But in order to use Rambus memory, a computer needs a supporting electronics technology called a chipset, which Intel supplies. Intel's newest chipset, code-named Camino and officially called the 820, is the first to support Rambus and will debut September 27, sources said.

While HP will announce its first Rambus-powered systems on September 20, it won't begin shipping them in volume until at least mid-October, said Mark Bony, product manager of HP's Kayak workstation line. HP is rebuilding its entire product line around two new models, the XM and the XU.

In addition, sources said Dell--typically the company most eager to embrace Intel's chips and one of the biggest Rambus supporters--won't debut its first Rambus systems until a month after Intel's chipset announcement. Dell declined to comment on unannounced products.

One source said there were technological problems causing the delay, but Glaskowsky said Intel insiders told him "there are no known problems on the hardware." Intel declined to comment on whether such a problem existed.

"We've said we'll introduce the Intel 820 in late September, and we're on schedule to do so," said spokesman Dan Francisco.

However, Francisco added, "System manufacturers will introduce on their own schedules."

Glaskowsky said it's reasonable for computer manufacturers to wait before unveiling Rambus systems. "Even though the chipset is available, it makes sense for OEMs [the original equipment manufacturers who build computers] to do a single combined release of Camino and Coppermine in October," he said.

Coppermine is the next model in the Pentium line. With a large amount of high-speed "cache" memory, it's expected to be speedy. Intel delayed its arrival from September to November, but last month moved the schedule up to October.

The fourth quarter is an awkward time to introduce new systems to the corporate market, said Steve Cullen, an analyst with Cahners In-Stat Group. With manufacturers concentrating on home-oriented systems for the holiday season and businesses worrying about the Y2K problem, "December seems like a difficult time to ship a new system," Cullen said.

Because mainstream memory prices were so low for so long, Cahners several weeks ago lowered its projections from 5 million to 3 million for how many relatively expensive Rambus systems will ship this year, Cullen said.

"SDRAM prices started tanking in the spring. The [Rambus] prices didn't tank along with them, so the price difference just mushroomed," he said.

A 128-MB system with Rambus will cost manufacturers about $100 to $200 more to build than a comparable SDRAM system, Glaskowsky said. The cost difference will be greater at the retail level.

"These machines aren't going to look attractive except to the people who want absolutely the highest model," he said. "Gamers are probably going to be the strongest market."

SDRAM prices now are on the rise again, Cullen noted.

Even though there have been problems with Rambus, many analysts still expect it to win out in the long run, bringing in lots of royalty revenue for the company and justifying its lofty stock price.

A performance problem?
A recent study by Bert McComas of InQuest Market Research concluded that Rambus won't live up to the performance benefits that Rambus, Intel, and others have claimed. Extrapolating from data that Dell released at the Intel Developers' Forum in August, McComas said Rambus systems were 25 percent slower than conventional SDRAM systems running ordinary Microsoft Office 2000 applications.

Dell disagreed with the interpretation, saying that the numbers had been taken out of context. "He misrepresented some numbers," said Dell spokesman Jon Weisblatt.

McComas defended the comparison, saying that a Dell representative told the audience that the tests were done on systems identically configured except one used Rambus and the other used conventional SDRAM. "I think it's real," McComas said. He said the performance gap comes from the increased "latency" of Rambus--the CPU must wait longer for information to arrive from memory.

Glaskowsky said he didn't trust McComas' numbers because there are too many ways the two machines could have differed. "You cannot make these straight-line comparisons that easily," he said.

"The performance benefits are kind of marginal right now," added Insight 64 analyst Nathan Brookwood. "I think that in the long run, the Rambus strategy is clearly going to be the right one," he said.