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Pastimes : Alternative Medicine/Health -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LLCF who wrote (34)	10/4/1999 3:46:00 PM
From: RWReeves	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 357

Vaccinia <<I hear you saying you that injecting live virus into a toddler or baby>>. Odd. I didn't hear me say that at all. I can tell you that given a choice, I would rather have every infection I ever had growing up come as an attenuated virus or recombinant viral coat protein instead of the "live" virus or bacteria that it did show up as. have you or your kids ever gotten sick from anything other than a "live" virus or bacterium? I think most of the vaccines are either "attenuated" or heat- inactivated or for example, SB's Recombi-vax which is recombinant in origin and incapable of causing the underlying disease. I also recall that the FDA has regulatory responsibility for vaccines and you don't get them approved without submitting a mountain of data and follow-up studies. And if you ever think that you got ill from a vaccine all you have to do is call the FDA and they make the manufacturer investigate it. Even if you are wrong. But sometimes you are right. They aren't all safe, as we learned with Swine flu vaccine for example, and certainly side effects which happen at low statistical levels may not show up until used in larger populations. I know that is slim consolation to the people it hits. I have heard of kids dying in a dentist's chair because of reaction to Novacaine. I think we all make these trade-offs, hoping the one in a million isn't us. I don't know a better answer than this. Do you? <<Really... can you sight some research for me showing how each of these is same attack on the body as live vaccine for any number of virus' injected into the body?>> Well, I could probably compare the antigen load presented by a vaccine to the antigen load presented by a ramping viral infection. Viral (for example rhinovorus) load probably surpasses (in sheer number of particles) the vaccine in the first few hours of infection- before you even know you are ill. After that, the load is still ramping geometrically when the body begins to mount an immune response. But more to experience we can all relate to, generally the side effect of a vaccination is a mild febrile response. Most of my febrile responses as a kid to colds, flu, strep, even salmonella were anything but "mild". They were howling illnesses that lasted for days. <<Can you help me find information about immune system development in infants and toddlers to back that up? I hear you saying babies & toddlers have better immune systems that 40 year olds. >> Sure. You can look up "thymus" in any immunology or physiology textbook and it will describe the rapid change in thymic function as we age. There's a lot of data on the difference of immune responses of adults vs. pediatric populations. It's a basic "given" in transplantation medicine. I'll try to think of a good survey article to suggest. So why would a vaccination "blast the immune system to smithereens?" <<IMO there are probably lots of causes for this condition [autistic spectrum]... another area of concern is anti-biotics wiping out the gut flora where a majority of the immune system operates. I wouldn't doubt that these kids have a genetic pre-disposition to certain stressors that can set them off... and when one comes along.. boom. Vaccines are probably just one stressor that might be the straw that broke the camels back so to speak.>> Agree that many antibiotics do wipe out the valuable intestinal flora. Takes a while to repopulate, but you'd be surprised at what's on what you eat everyday. Your gut does not stay lonely for long. There is no doubt that vaccines do add another challenge to a child's immune system. Some will result in completely unpredicted side effects that do not show up in even large, well controlled clinical trials. Some may just be there at the wrong time, and work like and adjuvant, kicking the immune system into action just when it is examining an important normal protein (like insulin) to see if it's something of interest. This does appear to be viral mediated, but nobody knows for sure which one does it. On the connection to autism, my guess is there will be some lawsuits over this and each side will get the chance to "prove" the connection or lack of it. Will take a mountain of data, research on "vaccination naive" populations perhaps, and a careful analysis. I could not reach a conclusion based on what was presented, but I can see how people could easily get upset by the show. I imagine it was intended to do just that. RWR