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Strategies & Market Trends : DAYTRADING Fundamentals -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Threei who wrote (4663)	10/4/1999 7:57:00 PM
From: Cormac	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 18137

Vadym - Well said...as usual you cut right to the chase - thanks MM's are not evil incarnate...what they are is trader incarnate, that is their business...which last time I looked it was OUR business too, or why would we be posting on this thread maybe it is just me and my naivete but I have never looked at MM's as anything but traders, no different than any other trader that I trade against...wake up and smell the roses we all trade against one another as I said a MM is just another trader...with their own individual habits, personality and quirks...just as ARCA and Island exhibit their own respective quirks and characteristics I don't know if I can ever explain this next statement to anyones satisfaction but I will throw it out there...in order of importance...I trade the traders first, the traders reaction to the market second and last but not least I trade the market IMHO if more traders did not chase shadows, blame MM's, blame fills, chat rooms, brokers, trading software, ISP's, hardware, etc and took some responsibility and could admit that when they lose they have been out-traded by another trader...they would be one step closer to getting a better education to become a more "SKILLED" trader than their competition trader in constant training, Cormac

To: Threei who wrote (4663)	10/4/1999 8:05:00 PM
From: E. Davies	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 18137

NITE is huge MM with many traders placing and cancelling orders. Of course they are. However I'll bet that there is only one trader behind the NITE we see on most stocks. Probably even 1 trader covering more than one stock (hence the occasional slow response). Anyone know for sure? Heck, I could have placed that order as NITE! There is a certain pattern behind MM activity vs. a regular customer order, though I cant see anyway to tell if the MM is "working" a large order for a customer. The biggest telltale sign is that they only bid/offer 100 shares. This tells you immediately that they are ready to use their special privilege of ignoring an order any time the market turns against them. There are no evil MMtraders that are after you. I have never said the MMs are "evil" or any other such nonsense. I have only said that they often interfere with the natural flow of the market. It is therefore important as a trader to attempt to understand the "why" of their behavior. Eric P.S. I just found out that Cyber has granted my wish. They now have a routing method they call "CyberExchange ECN" that routes only to ECN's (or so they say). Good idea.

To: Threei who wrote (4663)	10/4/1999 8:30:00 PM
From: OZ	Respond to of 18137

NITE is huge MM with many traders placing and cancelling orders. It's not like single trader does all this stuff for NITE Agreed, NITE represents order flow from 30+ discount brokers... OZ

To: Threei who wrote (4663)	10/4/1999 10:11:00 PM
From: Richard Estes	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 18137

Exactly! The MM, my broker uses, is an executor of my orders, he works for me. I am concerned with execution and exit and entries at my chosen junctures. Not what someone else is doing. If I was unhappy, I would find another broker. Most problems with execution lies in the choice of stock not an MM. Each stock has its characteristics, it is not the MM but those who would trade the stock. This topic includes those with an 1/8 in 2 min as goal to a six hour trade for 2 points. When either lets emotions jump into trade, they become less effective. Building stories of what they think is happening by reading level II screens can cause the emotions to flow. Emotions can kill the trader. Last year, I decided that I would only buy on bid and sell on ask, I had spent most of my life splitting the best bid/ask. I found I could do this 90% of time. The instant experts jump up and say you can't do that unless stock is fixing to dump or jump ahead. If that was so, I wouldn't do it. I sure don't have to find the right ECN combination either. There are many ways to skin the cat.