Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Gold/Mining/Energy : Gold Price Monitor -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Zardoz who wrote (42619)	10/10/1999 7:54:00 PM
From: Ironyman	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 116764

Bill Clinton will go down in history as the President who sold Fort Knox!.....True or False? Regards, Irony Man

To: Zardoz who wrote (42619)	10/10/1999 8:42:00 PM
From: Mark Bartlett	Respond to of 116764

Hutch, <, To place your money into a false rally cause of ECB comments is to show that this thread is nothing more then speculators. Many say here:" Why is this so hard to understand?">> I understand that there are many highly valued internet stocks that are crap and going the way of the dodo too ..... but the fundamentals represent only one component of what makes a market ..... perception means a lot too .... frankly, perception seems to mean a lot more than fundamentals, a good part of the time. Also - I am not really sure that anyone really knows how short this market might be ..... it seems to me that a lot of the gold market is behind closed doors. Finally - when I read your posts, I sense a good deal of frustration and even anger with those that do not "understand". Why is it that you feel so compelled to make us understand? From your perspective, it must seem like you are dealing with a bunch of idiots ..... why are you spending so much of your time and energy to save us idiots from ourselves? MB

To: Zardoz who wrote (42619)	10/10/1999 9:46:00 PM
From: Tunica Albuginea	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116764

Hutch, I've always smelled a rat in printing money ( M1 as you call it, GG ).. I call it green paper; without intrinsic value I may add. As a physician I have been keenly trained in getting to the bottom of things and being very suspicious: guilty till proven innocent. So when tricky Dick release paper from it's gold anchor immediately I said, why Dick? Why did you do that? Dick was too busy to answer so I moved on. 25 years later Hutch i am proud to report I finally figured it all out! And the end of all our exploring will be able to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. (T.S. Eliot) It's to hide inflation stupid. That's why we disconnected gold from the inflation train which was about to take off into a colossal world wide journey that has tinged every nation. But, but: where is inflation? Prices steady. Great economy; even M1 goes up and nothing happened! The gold bugs are delirious again, for sure. Not so Hutch. WE EXPORTED INFLATION!!!, all over the world. Japn Europe Asia But where TA? Where? Right here Hutch: in all these IOUs, USDollars,T-Bills,USSavings Bonds and all the crap we've been printing for 30 years and have been sprinkling around the world like so much horse manure. AND,and, THAT WE'VE CONVINCED THE REST OF THE WORLD TO TAKE IN EXCHANGE FOR THEIR CHEAP GOODS AND LABOR So now we have an increasing "trade and account deficit" we sell more dollars than we buy Yen. so the Yen goes up. Instead we want Japan and Europe to continue printing cash and devalue their money so the US dollar will be cheaper and we can continue to import. Unfortunately this Ponzi scheme of reshuffling cheaper and cheaper dollars is coming to an end. Hutch, what will happen if the Japanese want their all their money back in something tangible like gold and all Dollars return home to be cashed? I think Japan and Europe have called the card game up.They are no longer willing to finance US consumption. Before they buy one more USBond they want to see the price trend upwards not downwards. That's why the Bond is going down Hutch. Same reason why the Yen is going up. So there it is Hutch. I hope you are not short gold Hutch. I will encourage various thread members to light a candle for you, TA Message #42619 from Hutch at Oct 10 1999 6:27PM Government printing money== higher POG : get it? This is the number 1 lie of the mainstream gold bug mentality. Greenspan is a monetarist. Monetarists use money to control economics and thus inflation. If printing money was inflationary, then in Jan 11/99 when the rate of M2 was at it's peak you'd have seen the US FRB hike 1% or more, and CPI would've been ratcheting to all time highs. Why is this so hard to understand? for me it isn't, for this thread it is. Well the case is such that when growth out paces inflation your currency appreciates as more cash inflows into your country occurs. So the US Dollar Index shows this in the past, and the YEN is showing it now. What can be done is increase monetary supply {M2} and this will alleviate the rise of the currency. Japan has sterilized its monetary supply, and thus has allowed the YEN to over appreciate. This is why the FRB have been raising rates, to ease the pain of yet a further recession in Japan. Japan plans are to export their way out, but the way it's going, their currency will preclude that. A further implosion like Martin Armstrong suggests will cause a rapid demise in the YEN sooner then later. This capital outflow will wash around the world in a trillion dollar currency bath, and little is actually to land within the gold spectre. WHY? The ECB in it last dying grips of a debased monetary union will become a true Zollverein. And with that it is in the best interest to restructure the fledgling currency, by busting the balls of the gold markets. But rest assured that the FRB has also aided the recent rise of the POG by buying around 5.6 tonnes between Sept 25-Oct 7 99 bog.frb.fed.us So M2 is used to OFFSET the rise {appreciation} of your currency. members.home.net The US Fed is behind the US Treasury yield curve. This suggests that inflation, which is really a misnomer, has never been important. In truth deflationary pressure cause a rise in the POG, and that hasn't occurred since 1970-80. In deed the realization that over 40 MToz of gold a year can be mined for under $200 should add to the shock that any rise in the POG up to $325 is nothing more then the Derivative markets in gold being pulled to their maximum. And the derivative markets have held. Now more selling is hitting the markets. #reply-11498649 For those without a calculator, that's 1244 Tonnes per year. For how many years??? Now if total demand is around 2600 tonnes {World Gold Council Data} And if 1244 comes from less then $200 production, we need only account for 1355 tonnes. But thanks to Bob Johnson {he did my work for me} 1094mt of Asian scrap for 98. So that leaves a little over 260 tonnes. Is not the ECB suggesting 400 tonnes per year? Scary when you think of how much gold is floating around. Excess {which there are none} can easily be filled by those mines just over the $200 cost of production. Any additional mines coming on stream due to the rise to $320 will only add to the supply side of the equation. And thus we can expect a lower price of gold going forward. So those here that ridicule ABX for their hedging should realize that maximum gain from a forward hedging program is still the BEST WAY to maximize profits. Don't expect this futures driven rally to last. Supply is too large at greatly reduced costs. Now you understand when I said back 2 weeks ago, that this rally is playing into the hands of the shorter. NOW you know why other has suggested a $200/Toz for gold, and why Martin Armstrong {who was correct} suggests the same. I held at a low for $240, only cause demand would increase fast once you get below $250. But supply is so huge, and this is just a blip on a longer lower trend. To place your money into a false rally cause of ECB comments is to show that this thread is nothing more then speculators. Many say here:" Why is this so hard to understand?" Well I understand quite well, do you? I think not. Funny is those that question ABX hedge positions are those that truly don't understand what a hedge is. Cambior & Ashanti weren't hedging. Do you know if your gold company is hedging? Hutch PS: HMO's are a none starter here. People should have the right to sue them for proper care. Want to know where the markets will be in March 2000, look at DOW yield versus M3/M2, the trend is clear.

To: Zardoz who wrote (42619)	10/10/1999 11:56:00 PM
From: Casaubon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116764

Honestly, I do not know what value gold can possibly have as money; certainly no better than a promise for work not yet done (bonds). Really, I don't care. Money is a vote of confidence. Well, in support of gold it actually has other uses (electrical, jewelry, etc), whereas bonds are just a broken promise, and a lighter, away from nothing. Regardless, of what money "is", one thing is very clear to me. That is the fact that gold mining stocks (unhedged) have put in very dramatic bottom reversal pattern. This simple fact is in opposition to your argument. I am not confronting your position, as I do not have one myself. Having said that, I will state, chart patterns are not 100% and can fail. Retrospect will always prove one side of an argument. For now, gold seems bent on disproving yours. For what reason, I can not say.