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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: greenspirit who wrote (58925)	10/13/1999 10:31:00 AM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

I don't think I look ragged at all. I wasn't trying to fight or argue and Michael M. got rather personal. He later apologized to me and we're fine. Do you yearn for an America in which God is allowed and honored outside of our churches and synagogues, or do you want an America in which lip service is paid to him, so long as he is kept out of the real world? I guess I don't see this as the central question that you do. I don't feel my personal "yearnings" matter except in terms of how I live my own life. I "yearn for" an America in which all people are respected for their beliefs, whether they match mine or yours or some bizarre sect, and I yearn for a world where no one tries to say theirs are better, truer, more important. So in that respect, I DO think He-- and all faiths--needs to be kept out of the "real" world. He enters it through you or me individually in our actions and words, through our caring, through our giving. But not through our forcing it upon others as the ultimate truth. God IS allowed outside of the churches, and you and I are welcome to honor him as much as we like --- But he's not given priority seating over anyone else. In my house, he may be. But in a public place, no. And I believe that specific prayer to God in school is illegal. I believe that when a teacher says to my son, "How can you get through each day if you don't believe in Jesus?" she is way out of line. I believe a teacher stating that my son is morally deficient because he isn't a born again Christian should be fired. I believe that my son should not feel it necessary to hide his lack of religious belief from a track coach in a Christian t-shirt, who makes no pretense about preferring the "Christian" boys on his team, in order to be able to run. And no, I don't believe in lip service-- which is, by the way, what most people pay when they say the Pledge of Allegiance. I was under the impression that the use of the Bible in the courtroom had been challenged, along with everything else religious. This was my question about how much can we accept as tradition and ritual, and where does it become an imposition of one faith over others. I know we have visited the issue before on the late addition of In God We Trust, and "Under God" (not So help me God, I don't think?) to our money and our pledge. I am extremely conservative, and I resent this tendency to lump me in with some extremist, antiChrist group merely because I believe so strongly in the separation of Church and State. And I REALLY really dislike sarcasm- it's so belittling to the other person in what should be a mutually respectful discussion. I'm sorry you felt the need for it. As for the Packers- hmm- you have a point. I'll let the courts rule on that. If they are owned by the city, then you're right, they shouldn't be praying openly like that! I believe it is possible to live a life of integrity and honor and caring, without being "religious". That is the road I want us to take-one wide enough to allow everyone to walk down it side by side.

To: greenspirit who wrote (58925)	10/13/1999 1:23:00 PM
From: Ilaine	Respond to of 108807

We've had this argument before, but that doesn't seem to stop us, but I'd like to go at it from a diffent way, just for the sake of novelty. The last time we had the argument, it was about putting the Ten Commandments in school, some were fur it, some were agin' it. Why don't you tell us what YOU envision? Do you envision this as a Christian nation, with every office of government acknowledging the superiority of Jesus Christ, and organized so as best to carry out His teachings? Shall the public schools be changed so that Christian principles be taught, and all lessons consistent with your understanding of Christianity? Shall the laws and the Courts be reformed so that Christian principles and Biblical law control who is arrested, and convicted? Shall this be a theocracy, similar to what the Muslims are establishing in Iran and Afghanistan, only Christian? Is that your goal? And if not, what is it? Please, tell us.