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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: MSB who wrote (59211)	10/17/1999 2:06:00 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

>This prayer thing to "believers" is simply one more way I see as a way of completely pushing religion out of our lives, and I think this is the gist of the issue here, the fear of not being able to practice one's beliefs anywhere.< This is not true at all. The point is ALL may practice and NONE may dominate. Everyone is free to pray at any time (for who can stop a child or grown man from praying silently?)- you could conceivably pray all day long- and who would stop you? I certainly wouldn't- in fact I would support your right to worship in any way you like SO LONG AS YOU DO NOT MOLEST OTHERS. I find being attacked by the religious, especially AT MY HOME (when I have a sign on the door that says no soliciting) to be extremely noxious. I do not knock on the doors of others to spread my beliefs about agnosticism. I do not even campaign for Bertrand Russell to be read in school (even though I personally believe humongous doses of Russell would be extremely salubrious to the mental health of the young). I do not campaign in any way to foist my beliefs upon others- except that I occasionally mention my beliefs in forums such as this one. The absence of established religion in school- is NOT the same as abolishing it. THe absence of prayer in school is NOT a condemnation of prayer. The absence is NOT being filled by a secular prayer to liberalism, or a Wicca prayer to the great mother, the absence is merely- an abstention from action, an opportunity to let people act on their own as their own consciences direct them- but stopping at the nose (or ears) of their neighbor. This has everything to do with respect, and nothing to do with coercion- unless it is the coercion of respect- and I grant you- to a certain extent- it IS that. But since many religions have NO respect for people of other faiths or of no faith a little coercion is necessary to protect the "other"- whomever the "other" happens to be. As for my post about shooting proselytizers- it was merely to point out (in an argument ad absurdum) that whatever my beliefs- I should never be allowed to act upon them in such a way as to infringe upon the rights of another.

To: MSB who wrote (59211)	10/17/1999 9:40:00 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

MSB, I am not a non-believer, if you mean believer in Christianity. I am a practicing Catholic. I also believe in the separation of church and state, which happens to be the law. Since you seem to at least be reading what we write, let me ask you a question: What is the purpose to be served by public prayer in school? Everyone is able to pray if they want to, I do it all the time, but I don't pray out loud except in my car. My children know how to pray, and I assume that everyone who is in favor of prayer in school has taught their children to pray. My thought is that prayer in school is intended to reach "Them", the kids whose mothers and fathers didn't teach them to pray, in the hope of Christianizing them before it's too late. What do you think about it?

To: MSB who wrote (59211)	10/18/1999 12:22:00 AM
From: Krowbar	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

MSB, I like X's reply on this. This issue is really about who controls the public schools, and what will be taught there. The Protestants want only their version of religion taught, to the exclusion of other faiths, or philosophies of no God. The public schools should be neutral on which religion is right, or on whether there even is a God. This does not mean that religion cannot be discussed. In fact, I have said many times that I am in favor of students studying the basic concepts of the various religions, and agnosticism, so they can make their own choice. Guess what, those who are trying to force prayer in school don't like that idea. They think that only they are right. Del