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Politics : To be a Liberal,you have to believe that..... -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Null Dog Ago who wrote (4595)	10/26/1999 10:02:00 AM
From: nihil	Respond to of 6418

It is very complex. During the next few years reams of papers from the plans and meetings and strategies will be released. I think the general shape is already defined. Roosevelt was close to death, halways played his cards close to his chest, thought he could charm anyone (as he had Churchill), and more than anything wanted to succeed in establishing peace where Woodrow Wilson had failed. He held some cards, but he believed that the US was still ready to withdraw into its shell of isolationism. He knew we wouldn't stand up against the USSR and was not about to be hung out to dry. Even had he been at his best, we could not have done much better than the Yalta agreements (IMO). Remember that the bomb had not been tested, wasn't even finished. War production was turning down. Debt was climbing. I think he played his hand pretty well --- after all, we survived and even flourished. USSR collapsed. Hard to argue with success.

To: Null Dog Ago who wrote (4595)	10/26/1999 10:21:00 AM
From: Henry Volquardsen	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 6418

I'm not disagreeing that US and British troops were ordered to not advance beyond a certain point because of the Yalta agreements. That is correct. What I was disagreeing with was the notion that we would have taken Berlin if not stopped. We were much more than three days away and the Russians had been ahead of us in the race to Berlin for some time, the Battle of the Bulge ensured that. I also disagree that we ordered the halt to allow the Soviets to save face. If anything it gave us a face saving excuse for why we couldn't beat the Soviets to Berlin. Fwiw it is my opinion that the Soviets, as much as I find them detestable, carried the lion's share of beating Nazi Germany. They needed no face saving gestures. Also I am of the opinion that the US strategic air war against both Germany and Japan was essentially a failure (that should start plenty of arguements -g-).