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To: O'Hara who wrote (1452)	10/30/1999 6:56:00 PM
From: Red Heeler	Respond to of 4775

shalom, LOL CC

To: O'Hara who wrote (1452)	11/1/1999 5:55:00 PM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4775

John 3:16 by Brian Valentine === The Most Quoted and Least Understood Verse in the Bible === PART 1 John 1:12-13 *****Every Serious Christian Should take time to read this.*** First before jumping into John 3:16 Let's look at what God in His wisdom ordained to be spoken to us in ORDER. We must learn to crawl then to walk and follow the order given by God. What leads up to those words being spoken by Christ..... The Gospel according to John starts off explaining... Who John the Baptist was and Who Jesus was . John was a witness but Jesus was THE LIGHT. John 1:10 Jesus created the world and yet the world knew Him not! Then in verse 12 it states that " as many as received Him." People "knew Him not" YET they "Received Him" ???? How can these things be ? MOST MODERN PREACHERS ... have interpreted the word "received" as "accepted" The word used for received is lambano It can mean either Active - to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it Passive to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get back Active It can mean to receive as in catching a Ball It was thrown but you must " Actively " and willfully receive it ! Passive It can also mean receive as in getting a needle from the nurse while in traction. :-} You "Receive" it all right but you do not "Accept" It This kind of receiving is "Passive" and not an "act of your will !" EVERYONE WHO MUST GET THE NEEDLE WILL BUT SOME WILL FIGHT !** However in all honesty the word can be interpreted either way. Active taking or Passive receiving. How then do we know which way it is meant ?? By reading the very next verse. *** THIS IS KEY - THIS IS KEY - THIS IS KEY * John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. * THIS IS KEY - THIS IS KEY - THIS IS KEY***** Read this verse 13 first and then read verse 12 and see that The word "receive" must be PASSIVE not ACTIVE To be active the will of man or the flesh must be involved !!! THEREFORE 'RECEIVE CANNOT MEAN ACCEPT' IN THIS VERSE EVER ! ====================================================================== To understand John 3:16 the previous and the following must be first learned . That is the way God caused John to record this message and that is the way the Student must follow in order! ====================================================================== But you will say... next the thought reads John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: It sounds like God has enabled or given the POWER to BECOME Is that not an act of our will ?? Verse 13 says no. In fact even the Living BIBLE which I hate says: he gave the RIGHT to become children of God** sexually politically correct and all they got one thing right ! It is a GRANTED RIGHT or PRIVELEGE not some enablement of the flesh ! If you have a KJV with margin notes an alternate translation is noted as : the right or priviledge, Indeed we learn elsewhere that it is not us working for salvation but rather God that works Salvation within us ! Lest any man should boast ! *** THIS IS KEY - THIS IS KEY - THIS IS KEY * Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. * THIS IS KEY - THIS IS KEY - THIS IS KEY * The Gift of GOD in Salvation is complete apart from our works or acceptance. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Problem = Sin and Rebellion Prognosis = Condemnation and HELL Doctor = The Great Physician - Christ Jesus Needle = God's free Gift of Salvation Patient = The Father's Elect ( chosen before the world began ) Serum = Holy Spirit Cure = Immediate Recovery = A life time ! Part 2 Nicodemus a Pharasee**

To: O'Hara who wrote (1452)	11/1/1999 8:04:00 PM
From: Berry Picker	Respond to of 4775

John 3:16 Part 2 by Brian Valentine See message # 1570 First... === The Most Quoted and Least Understood Verse in the Bible John - 3:16 === PART 2 John 3:3-11 Nicodemus a Pharasee *****Every Serious Christian Should take time to read this. See #1570 first*** There was a Ruler of Jews** named Nicodemus. He was a Pharasee a Religious ruler and teacher in Israel. Now Jesus had gone into the "church" and overthrown tables of commerce and beaten the clergy with a whip yelling: Mark 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves. How to influence people and make friends :-} NICE ! After this public display of Christ's Righteous Anger ! Then: Something happens.... John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Nicodemus Came to Jesus as it is written : John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Nicodemus at the first " Came to Jesus"but At Night it was not the politically right thing to do. To hear this mad man who even dared to Attack the Church ! Many of the Pharasees were saying: John 10:20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him? But not ALL ! Nicodemus however was one of those who was Called and Chosen of God ! Nicodemus is at this point confessing that Jesus MUST LOGICALLY be a Teacher come from God because He is doing miracles ! We are quite sure that Nicodemus thinks that he is there because of his powers of reason... were his fellow theological scholars inferior ?? So much so that the would say the Lord of Glory hath a Demon and is mad ! Jesus immediately rejects Nicodemus's attempts to enter merely into an intellectual session of human reasonings and says: John 3:3 Jesus answered and said , Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. ====================================================================== ========================Ye must be born again.======================== ====================================================================== Nicodemus, being a Pharasee and the intellectual 'cream of the crop' is quite used to clever debates and inquiries but Jesus answers him back You must be Born Again How frustrating and silly is this ??? So he answers Jesus back with: John3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Or ... do I see the Kingdom by crawling back in my mother now that I'm old??? Jesus has not told Nick that he needs to "accept him intellectually". Jesus has not told Nick to work real hard give to the poor and be good ! ===== Jesus does tell him HOW men are saved !!! ===== After all that is why the Father has drawn him there.. to be saved ! *** THIS IS KEY - THIS IS KEY - THIS IS KEY * John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me DRAW HIM : and I will raise him up at the last day. This kind of Draw is as in DRAW WATER FROM a WELL ! It is not to attract like a magnet ! and not All MEN. * THIS IS KEY - THIS IS KEY - THIS IS KEY *** I will do a post on the word "ALL" in scripture if asked. Jesus DOES say: John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. So in the same PASSIVE WAY that we were first born into this world Whhhaaaaa I never asked to be born... boo hoo... So it is of the second Spiritual Birth. Born of the flesh of the will of our parents Born of God of the WILL OF GOD John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Therefore Jesus said to the very Perplexed Nicodemus John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Jesus explains that the WIND ( Life Breathe of GOD ) blows where ever IT WILLS ( listeth ) --------------------------------------------------------------------- The word translated "Listeth" is *thelo* According to Vines.... to will, have in mind, intend (1a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose --------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is an interesting way for Jesus to say that Spiritual Birth is of the SPIRIT rather than the will of man. Does the wind blow everywhere but only 'move' those trees that are willing ? Now Perplexed Nicodemus is now in disbelief when Jesus explained: "so is every one that is born of the Spirit." His answer in Total Disbelief is: John 3:9 How can these things be ? He plainly cannot believe that GOD alone is the author of Salvation. He cannot believe that man is not in some way involved in the choice. He cannot believe that all of his religious effort thus far has not helped him to ================="SEE the KINGDOM" at all ======================= What does Jesus say to Nicodemus who thinks this is a deep and hard thing to understand ?? John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Jesus teaches that this is BASIC BASIC BASIC !!! Yet now Nicodemus thinks that Jesus "thinks this is true" but he doubts it ! Perhaps He's not quite the "teacher sent from God" He first thought He was. Many who read a post like this will say Brian "thinks" this says this but I "think" it means something else.. But I and He who shed His blood for me say unto you this Just as on that day... Jesus then said to Nicodemus: John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. Before Christ I stand .. this is God's Truth. Next ...Part 3.... John 3:16 really :-}

To: O'Hara who wrote (1452)	11/1/1999 10:41:00 PM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4775

John 3:16 Part 3 by Brian Valentine === The Most Quoted and Least Understood Verse in the Bible === PART 3 John 3:12-16 First see # 1570 and # 1573 *****Every Serious Christian Should take time to read this.*** Nicodemus.. an elderly but Elect Child of God is at this point sitting in disbelief..maybe like you.. thinking "these things Can Not Be" Jesus has rebuked Nick saying: John3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. John3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? John3:13 And no man,** hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. Jesus , knowing that Nicodemus has studied the Mosaic Covenant, draws Nicodemus back to what he does know and believes for sure. John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: ( The serpent on the pole has become the symbol for medicine today ) Often in scripture the "serpent" represents Satan.. but in this case ==== The SERPENT represented Jesus the Cure on the Pole ==== Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. So then by the time one reads John 3:15 They should have already seen in the book of John that It is God alone that causes a man to approach Him even as Nicodemus has come not fully knowing why !! Psalms 65:4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple. John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. This verse says that the "ones believing" it DOES NOT say ========= WHOSOEVER wants to BELIEVE ================ But that is what modern Preacher Teach... They know less Than Nicodemus. It simply says those who believe with Saving Faith ! Why say I saving Faith ?? There is a difference between Saving Faith and believing... When we saw in John 1:12 it said "even to those who believe on His name." What does that mean? Is the kind of Faith given as a gift from God the same as Positive thinking based on human presumption ??? ==== Satan Believes in Jesus - will he be saved !==== Even the demons said: Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? These demons both believe and KNOW WITHOUT DOUBT that Jesus will torment them forever when the "time" comes. THEY believe in His name !!! What of these fellows: Mathew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. === These men believed in His name... they even did miracles !!! === Nicodemus first said: John3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Nicodemus was called and drawn by God to Jesus that night by the Spirit of God as a Chosen Vessel of Mercy but he was not yet" Born of the Spirit" He did not yet know he was predestined to be a son of GOD. He did not possess saving FAITH as a GIFT ! Was Nicodemus saved... did he "accept" Jesus or was God already working in His LIFE ! 1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us. ==== Nicodemus was elect and chosen and in the end saved. ==== Jesus explained Spiritual Birth and He could not believe that the FLESH and efforts of Men Profited NOTHING... John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Where was Nicodemus in the end of the Matter: John7:50 Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, being one of them,) 51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth? Here we see Nicodemus trying as did Peter to defend the Christ and yet failing in his Flesh !! But again after the Death of Jesus : John 19:39 And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. 40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury Which came first at night... Oh how bold now he is - not ashamed to be seen with the Christ even in His DEATH ! Next Part 4 JOHN 3:16 THE VERY VERSE ITSELF This time I mean it :-}

To: O'Hara who wrote (1452)	11/2/1999 12:58:00 AM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 4775

John 3:16 Part 4 The Finale... by Brian Valentine === The Most Quoted and Least Understood Verse in the Bible === PART 4 John 3:16 - First see # 1570 and # 1573 and #1577 *****Every Serious Christian Should take time to read this.*** John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Many people approach this verse already believing that ==== God is All Benevolent.==== Meaning that He loves everyone the same ! Where do they get this idea?? From there concept of How they would be IF they were God. ===== NOT FROM THE BIBLE ===== There are so many cases of God's hatred and Favour being shown in scripture Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.** - I pain to start. Also getting a little tired :-} Joseph was cast out and practically crucified for revealing God's revelation through a dream of the Favour GOD would to show Him. His brothers sold him into Slavery A symbol of Satan ! They would rather he went to Hell then to see God Favour anyone ! Even Jesus had more beloved Disciples: John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Jesus has A Favourite and then the three... Math 17:1 ¶ And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, To see the TRANSFIGURATION ( who shall not taste death until ) Math 26:37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. To share with Him in his Prayer at the Garden of Gethsemane There are those whom Jesus Hates before they are born: Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Men do not seem to care what the Bible or God has to say about this matter.. ==== God MUST love all MEN or ELSE !!! ==== John 3:16 has been written in modern times like this: Living Bible : John 3:16 For God loved the world so much... It teaches that GOD actually loves the world and the love of the world is so strong that he just HAD to send HIS SON ??? Here it is again in the Weymouth Bible: John 3:16 For so greatly did God love the world... Many more modern and UNFAITHFUL PARAPHRASES exist that impose the Idea that GOD loves the World and everyone in it. What did Jesus say about loving the world... 1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. If Jesus loves the whole world so much why does He not pray for it: John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. I would think that if Jesus loved everyone then He would have at least prayed for them but He does not in Fact He tells the Father that He PRAYS NOT for the world He prays only for those who the Father hath chosen out of the world: John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. All this confusion because of ONE LITTLE ENGLISH WORD ==================== "SO"========================= There are no Greek manuscripts that say "SO MUCH " anywhere.... It is not that KIND of SO... It is "SO" as in LIKE SO voila or "in this way " ----------------------------------------------------------------- The word translated "so" is houto According to Vines it means: 1) in this manner, thus, so ------------------------------------------------------------------ John 3:16 does not teach that God loves the whole world. So Much ! It teaches rather this: For God in this manner loved the ones would should believe out of the world... ===It was a determined decision and not a compelling Emotion !=== Does it teach that He showed this love to Everyone ... NO. God does not love a fallen and wicked world ! Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. So that God gave His only begotten son SO THAT the ones believing who are born again by the "wind of the Holy Spirit" would not perish but have eternal life. THE ONES BELIEVING is already the topic from verse 15 John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Then verse 16 starts with the word === FOR === as in therefore.... explaining about the ones believing NOT THE WHOLE WORLD ! John 3:16 actually teaches this: That Jesus WILL be lifted up as was the Brass Serpent so that those who are BORN AGAIN not by the will of man but by the WILL of GOD by the WIND of the HOLY SPIRIT will not perish but have everlasting life. This and this only is the Love That God the Father can in righteousness show to a fallen and wicked world ! God in this way loved the world that He gave His Own Son for the elect that they would not perish with the world but have eternal LIFE ! I apologize if this last message was not my best as I wrote all 4 today in one sitting and did not take enough time to do a better job but I do think that I have given ample evidence of the true meaning of John 3:16.. One can not see a meaning for this verse apart from it's original setting nor the rest of the entire Bible: Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

To: O'Hara who wrote (1452)	11/3/1999 12:03:00 AM
From: O'Hara	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4775

><>...The Wonderful Effect of.... DIVINE LOVE!!!!...><> The Disciple I BLESS You, O heavenly Father, Father of my Lord Jesus Christ, for having condescended to remember me, a poor creature. Thanks to You, O Father of mercies, God of all consolation, Who with Your comfort sometimes refresh me, who am not worthy of it. I bless You always and glorify You with Your only-begotten Son and the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, forever and ever. Ah, Lord God, my holy Lover, when You come into my heart, all that is within me will rejoice. You are my glory and the exultation of my heart. You are my hope and refuge in the day of my tribulation. But because my love is as yet weak and my virtue imperfect, I must be strengthened and comforted by You. Visit me often, therefore, and teach me Your holy discipline. Free me from evil passions and cleanse my heart of all disorderly affection so that, healed and purified within, I may be fit to love, strong to suffer, and firm to persevere. Love is an excellent thing, a very great blessing, indeed. It makes every difficulty easy, and bears all wrongs with equanimity. For it bears a burden without being weighted and renders sweet all that is bitter. The noble love of Jesus spurs to great deeds and excites longing for that which is more perfect. Love tends upward; it will not be held down by anything low. Love wishes to be free and estranged from all worldly affections, lest its inward sight be obstructed, lest it be entangled in any temporal interest and overcome by adversity. Nothing is sweeter than love, nothing stronger or higher or wider; nothing is more pleasant, nothing fuller, and nothing better in heaven or on earth, for love is born of God and cannot rest except in God, Who is above all created things. One who is in love flies, runs, and rejoices; he is free, not bound. He gives all for all and possesses all in all, because he rests in the one sovereign Good, Who is above all things, and from Whom every good flows and proceeds. He does not look to the gift but turns himself above all gifts to the Giver. Love often knows no limits but overflows all bounds. Love feels no burden, thinks nothing of troubles, attempts more than it is able, and does not plead impossibility, because it believes that it may and can do all things. For this reason, it is able to do all, performing and effecting much where he who does not love fails and falls. Love is watchful. Sleeping, it does not slumber. Wearied, it is not tired. Pressed, it is not straitened. Alarmed, it is not confused, but like a living flame, a burning torch, it forces its way upward and passes unharmed through every obstacle. If a man loves, he will know the sound of this voice. For this warm affection of soul is a loud voice crying in the ears of God, and it says: ?My God, my love, You are all mine and I am all Yours. Give me an increase of love, that I may learn to taste with the inward lips of my heart how sweet it is to love, how sweet to be dissolved in love and bathe in it. Let me be rapt in love. Let me rise above self in great fervor and wonder. Let me sing the hymn of love, and let me follow You, my Love, to the heights. Let my soul exhaust itself in praising You, rejoicing out of love. Let me love You more than myself, and let me not love myself except for Your sake. In You let me love all those who truly love You, as the law of love, which shines forth from You, commands.?Love is swift, sincere, kind, pleasant, and delightful. Love is strong, patient and faithful, prudent, long-suffering, and manly. Love is never self-seeking, for in whatever a person seeks himself there he falls from love. Love is circumspect, humble, and upright. It is neither soft nor light, nor intent upon vain things. It is sober and chaste, firm and quiet, guarded in all the senses. Love is subject and obedient to superiors. It is mean and contemptible in its own eyes, devoted and thankful to God; always trusting and hoping in Him even when He is distasteful to it, for there is no living in love without sorrow. He who is not ready to suffer all things and to stand resigned to the will of the Beloved is not worthy to be called a lover. A lover must embrace willingly all that is difficult and bitter for the sake of the Beloved, and he should not turn away from Him because of adversities. Thomas A. Kempis