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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Grainne who wrote (66103)	12/11/1999 3:44:00 PM
From: Tom Clarke	Respond to of 108807

<<many of the century's worst dictators were beaten as children>> Wilhelm Reich got a lot of mileage out of his theory that men became dictators due to difficulty in achieving satisfactory orgasms. But maybe that's a topic for another thread. In defense of spanking: No pain no gain says this scribbler: nationalpost.com

To: Grainne who wrote (66103)	12/11/1999 4:07:00 PM
From: jlallen	Respond to of 108807

LOL! You are more ignorant and pompous than I thought. Just who the hell are you to tell me preach at me about the way I choose to raise my children. Thank God the Constitution and the Bill of Rights protects me from self-righteous cretins like yourself who are so much better than the rest of us. Happy Holidays to you too. JLA

To: Grainne who wrote (66103)	12/11/1999 4:15:00 PM
From: jlallen	Respond to of 108807

BTW, who's the anonymous chickensh*t who is such a coward he/she needs you to do his/her dirty work? What a lowlife coward! JLA

To: Grainne who wrote (66103)	12/11/1999 8:23:00 PM
From: Nuni	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 108807

I believe I remember JLA's post on spanking, and I think he merely recommended a wop on the bottom to a very young child (a bottom probably padded by a diaper). I have never hit or spanked my children, but I have given a wop on the bottom when they were too young to understand anything else. And only under certain circumstances, like when they were about to run out into the street. I wanted (instinctively) to make a quick, very negative gesture that would get their attention. A lecture would not have been effective. I was never hit or slapped as a child, but I imagine I was wopped by a protective parent when I was too young to understand words. It's nothing I remember--but I see animals give their babies wops too. I think it's nature. It's a real hit below the belt to tell someone you feel sorry for their children. I read the link you posted on Alice Miller, and that was about children who are beaten. Quite different from children who get wops on the bottom. IMO, anyway.

To: Grainne who wrote (66103)	12/12/1999 3:32:00 AM
From: pezz	Respond to of 108807

It appears that other than theory we haven't the slightest bit of evidence that spanking children is in any way associated with violent prone adults. Alice Miller can tell us till she is blue in the face that she thinks spankings are the cause of this and that but where is the evidence? << Violent behavior in teenagers, especially young male rapists can, according to Miller, be linked with early emotional neglect,>> Oh? How so ? What study has been done to demonstrate this and how was it done and by who? Were these results reproduced by others in a scientifically controlled manner? Did the researchers have an ax to grind? I find it rather suspicious when I am told that a point has been "demonstrated" without foot marks. I should add that I see no correlation with " emotional neglect" and spankings. I would challenge anyone who said my parents "emotionally neglected" my sister and I yet we were spanked when mom and Dad felt we needed it. It would seem that her only evidence is that four carefully selected dictators have been beaten as children. Himmmm.....Is this statically significant ? And just how do we define beaten? Does this mean a spanking on the behind with the hand or something more savage? Since the discussion is on spanking what relevance does being beaten have on this topic? Point in fact most of her argument is based on "beatings" while the debate is on spankings. I for one find it frightening that this woman's theory with out supporting evidence can actually influence the law with regards to the upbringing of children. In my own childhood when punishment was to be handed out a careful discussion came first so that either my sister or I knew what it was that we were being punished for. The Spankings were not often necessary as we learned fast. I always remember the more "enlightened" parents giving the discussion without the spankings . And the spoiled brats that seemed more often than not the result. These spoiled brats became spoiled adults so common today....But of course this is only my observation.....

To: Grainne who wrote (66103)	12/12/1999 9:50:00 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

I wonder if verbal abuse is better than spanking. Most spanking is mild--- one to five slaps on the fanny through clothing, frequently through diapers---- and disappears once the child is old enough to reason with. Belittling, nagging, undermining of confidence, and so on can be vicious and go on forever, as in the classic "dysfunctional family Thanksgiving movie". But more than that, should we infer from the fact that some verbal correction is abuse that all verbal correction is wrong? Of course not, some correction is necessary. Well, then, why should we infer that since some physical correction is abusive, we may not employ any? That is not only illogical, it threatens the liberty of parents throughout the country, and is insidious. We are setting up a basis for massive interference in family life, once a spank or even a slap is defined as "abuse", since most parents do it, whether programmatically or in frustration, from time to time. The next step would be to consider verbal admonition to be abusive, and to take away our children on that basis......Incidentally, if you speak to your own children the way you do to JLA, well, I would worry about your Thanksgivings.....