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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: greenspirit who wrote (67213)	12/18/1999 4:47:00 PM
From: Alexander	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Michael, May I speak on this issue..My late husband was the son of Irish Immigrants..He never touched one of our six children. I did any spanking I felt necessary.So Nationality has no bearing on this issue.

To: greenspirit who wrote (67213)	12/18/1999 5:02:00 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Ireland, like most western nations, is rapidly changing the way it views children and spanking. In 1979 the state department of education developed and implemented a child centered educational system. All corporal punishment of children was outlawed in schools. Regrettably, however, in more conservative, Catholic-church dominated rural areas, the parents are intimidated and do not always challenge teachers who continue to hit children. Ireland, as a member of the European Economic Community, has had to give up some of its sovereignty and gradually accept the higher standards of some of the other European countries in matters of health. It is now illegal to smoke in stores, for example. Birth control pills and condoms are available, and literature is no longer censored. It will take time, but the social standards of the northern European countries like Sweden will become more prevalent in all of Europe. During the witch burnings, Catholic priests urged men to beat their wives to keep them under control. If there is an Irish relationship to beating children, I believe it comes originally from the church. There are references in the Bible, as you know, to hitting children. Additionally, in the last thousand years of domination of Ireland by the English, etc. the Irish lost their lands and for the most part struggled just to feed their families. This makes people feel very powerless and stressed out, which also makes parents more likely to hit their children. The addition of alcohol to the mix makes it even more lethal. Exactly what protections DO you believe endangered children deserve, Michael?

To: greenspirit who wrote (67213)	12/18/1999 9:15:00 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

I can tell you with absolute certainty that CPS here will treat parental behavior OTHER than corporal punishment as abuse. I am aware of a case where a father told his teenage daughter that she could not go to sleep until she practiced her musical instrument. She refused to practice, and he refused to allow her to go to bed, until he finally gave in at 4:00 a.m. on a school night. She fell asleep in class the next day, and told her teacher why, and CPS investigated, and found it to be abuse. I am also aware of a case where a father would go into the children's rooms late at night with a flashlight, and shine it on their faces, and that was treated as abuse - there were more things involved, in fact the father turned out to be schizophrenic. I remember one time sitting in McDonald's, listening to a woman harangue some children, using filthy language. I wish I could have reported her to CPS, but she was on foot. I wish I had said something to her. If I heard her now, I would definitely say something.