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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: jbe who wrote (67350)	12/19/1999 1:24:00 AM
From: Tom Clarke	Respond to of 108807

What is this, like homework? Many good points Joan, but I'll have to respond in the morning. And so, to bed.

To: jbe who wrote (67350)	12/20/1999 9:01:00 PM
From: Tom Clarke	Read Replies (5) \| Respond to of 108807

Come, come, Charley. You know perfectly well that the word "socialist" in the context of fascism was perfectly meaningless. Of course, you can say that Fascism was a left-wing phenomenon (after all, Mussolini HAD been a "genuine" socialist), but there is an awful lot of scholarship out there you are going to have to disprove Joan, this sentence seems to be its own little circular argument. "Socialism in the context of fascism was perfectly meaningless" is followed "fascism was a left wing phenomenon." Then you say there is an awful lot of scholarship I would have to disprove. What were these scholars doing? I think most history is fairly straightforward. We deal with facts and actual events. I think many "scholars" seek to muddy the waters rather than report the truth. History can be inconvenient for some people. their meaning changes with the context. Right and left are not absolute terms "When words lose their meaning, people lose their liberties" --Confucious When Mussolini formed the Fascist Party, do you think he had an epiphany and renounced his socialism in order to embrace an entirely new system of thought? True, after WWI, he gave up his purely Marxist views, and according to his own disavowal, became increasingly interested in Proudhon, Sorel, and the French Syndicalist movement. I have a book by him titled The Corporate State. It is striking how much the ideas in the book resemble FDR's New Deal. One of the characteristics of the "Right" in early 20th century continental Europe was the belief in the beneficent power of the Irrational, of the Blood, of the Folk, of the community vs. the alien, etc., etc. Hitler had all that in spades, and then some. LOL, the right in early 20th century Europe was still lamenting the downfall of the Habsburgs. The movement that spoke of the Blood and the Folk started in Bohemia with a revival of interest in the Taborites. The ideas of the Taborite movement were adopted as guidelines by the Czech National Socialist Party. They emphasized the Hussite-Taborite tradition, which became an "official myth" of Czechoslovakia after the country was formed in 1918. Czech nationalism was strongly identitarian, far more so than Italian fascism, which put the accent on the state rather than the people. These ideas migrated into Austria with the forming of the German Worker's Party. They formed their program in Trautenau with the declaration, "We are a liberty loving nationalistic party that fights energetically against reactionary tendencies as well as feudal, clerical, or capitalistic privileges and all alien influences." Throw in a little Darwin and Spencer and you get Hitler's platform. I don't think movements that seek to overturn old orders and erect new orders can properly be called rightist, can they? IMO, the browns weren't much different than the reds, they were just less subtle.