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Technology Stocks : All About Sun Microsystems -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: cfimx who wrote (26100)1/11/2000 12:45:00 PM
From: Michael F. Donadio  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 64865
 
Licensees To Sun: Let Go Of Java Or We Will Walk

internetwk.com

Wednesday, January 5, 2000


By ELLIS BOOKER

Senior executives from IBM, Hewlett-Packard, Microsoft and
other vendors are in secret negotiations to wrest control of the
Java specification from Sun Microsystems.

According to sources involved in those discussions, the
vendors are growing so impatient with Sun's half-hearted
efforts to standardize Java that they're considering forming a
special interest group that would establish an independent
Java standard.

The group--which unites longtime Java enemies IBM and
Microsoft--will first offer to work with Sun, the creator of Java,
but is prepared to move forward without Sun's blessing, the
sources said.

Such a challenge could significantly impact IT organizations
that rely on Java applications. For one thing, there's the
prospect that Java could fracture, with incompatible versions
coming from different camps.

Indeed, Sun often points to the lesson of Unix, which splintered
into several versions, as one reason its "stewardship" over
Java is necessary.

Forty-four percent of software developers are using Java for at
least some projects, according to a recent Evans Marketing
Services survey of 500 developers.

Sun maintains that its Java Community Process, initiated two
years ago, opens the ongoing development of the core Java
spec to community development.

George Paolini, a Sun vice president who oversees the
community of Java developers, called the formation of such a
group misguided. But whether Sun might take part "is an
entirely different issue," he said. "We might join to keep it from
going off the deep end."

What's more, because only 30 percent of Java is in the public
domain, an independent group couldn't advance a separate
spec without violating Sun's copyrights, Paolini said.

In fact, that was the conclusion of ECMA, a European
standards body that had considered but then dropped the
idea of adopting Java as a standard after Sun pulled out of the
standards process.

IBM, the largest Java developer, has made its displeasure
known as Sun has reneged on plans to hand over Java to
standards groups.

"IBM would like to see Sun live up to its commitments to
standardize the language specification," said John Swainson,
general manager for application and integration middleware
at IBM.

In addition, IBM is unhappy with Sun's approach to licensing
Java, despite Sun's lifting of royalties for applications that use
Java 2 Standard Edition (J2SE), the core Java technology for
PCs and workgroup servers.

For example, Sun continues to negotiate licensing/royalty
terms for Java 2 Enterprise Edition (J2EE), used to create
more complex multitier applications, and Java 2 Micro Edition
(J2ME), used for applications in consumer electronics and
embedded systems.

Several Java licensees argue that Sun should hand over the
technology to an independent standards body, principally
because the Java specs consist of intellectual property from
multiple companies.

"Over 80 percent of the APIs [in J2EE] came from IBM,"
Swainson said. "Sun has taken the name J2EE and applied it
as a brand, which they control. This is not a game we're going
to play."

Sun is said to be charging royalties of 3 percent to 5 percent
of the revenue Java licensees derive from their J2EE
products.

Dana Marks, program director of Java technology at HP, said
he had no knowledge of HP's involvement in a planned Java
SIG. But two other large Java licensees insist that HP is a
member of the splinter group.

Still, Marks repeated HP's "disappointment" that Sun had
backed away from standards efforts, first with ISO and more
recently with ECMA.

HP has broken ranks in the past. In 1998, the company
effectively cloned Sun's Java virtual machine for handheld
computers and other embedded devices because HP
considered Sun's code too large to run on low-powered
systems. IBM also created its own embedded version of Java.

Java developers said they don't care how the vendors sort out
their differences, but whatever the outcome, they want the
Java specifications to remain united.

"If IBM, for instance, said it was creating its own J2EE and if
50 percent of the EJB developers went with them, that would
cause a problem and make the J2EE story less compelling. I
want a single J2EE," said George Morris, director of software
engineering at Celera Genomics, a biopharmaceutical
company. Morris' group is using an Enterprise JavaBeans
application server from Persistence Software to deliver
database-driven applications to scientists at pharmaceutical
companies.

Morris said he's satisfied with Sun's stewardship of Java, and
he's concerned that splintering Java would give Microsoft a
chance to push its own COM and DCOM technologies as
Java alternatives, just as Microsoft's Windows benefited
during the Unix wars.

BEA Systems, another major Java licensee, likewise takes
issue with Sun's branding fees for J2EE.

"We think of J2EE as 'stone soup,' because a lot of
companies contributed to it," said Scott Dietzen, CTO of
BEA's e-commerce server division. "We don't believe it's fair
to charge royalties when there's no intellectual property."

That said, Dietzen quickly added that Sun should be
compensated by Java licensees for its testing suite and
reference implementation. BEA, he said, has reached an
"agreement in spirit" with Sun on these points and is confident
it can work out its remaining differences.

Analysts familiar with the players, while acknowledging the
irritation of some Java licensees, say the SIG threat is just
that.

"It's saber rattling to convince Sun," said Amy Wohl, president
of Wohl Associates. "I think the intention is not to fracture Java
but to force Sun's hand."


Does this bring a smile to your face twister?
Michael



To: cfimx who wrote (26100)1/11/2000 5:21:00 PM
From: paul  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 64865
 
apologies for making this the Unisys thread..

"...remember, uis is not a COMPETITOR to suncom. <g> did u hear, suncom had a chance to win this account, but they DIDN"T WANT IT BECAUSE IT WAS AN
INUSRANCE COMPANY? Imagine."

firstly - you have no idea what went on in this account and yes Sun may be too cutting edge for these guys - who knows - im sure if Unisys could have taken a potshot at sun they would.

secondly - Unisys is a competitor - at one point they were a much more formidable competitior with their U6000 line, However they made a bet 3 or 4 years ago that if they partnered with Microsoft early they could perhaps ride the supposed NT wave ahead of Compaq, Dell, HP, etc and get a leg up on their RISC competitors who they knew they could not keep up with like Sun, HP and IBM. Well they kept their side of the bargain and Microsoft did not keep theirs having delivered none of the requirements for scalability and reliability most unisys customers expect who were running their convergent boxes or A series or U6000's - and Intel fell flat as well with a badly botched job on IA-64 - these weird configs Unisys rolls out every now and then are basically an attempt to convince their installed base that at some point point they will get there - in other words its about catching up to where Sun was years ago and not where Sun will be years from now.